Confused. Is this hat 80's doing 40's?

Discussion in 'PUBLIC Vintage Fashion Q & A' started by grandmascloset, Mar 13, 2011.

  1. grandmascloset

    grandmascloset Registered Guest

    Confused. Is this hat 80\'s doing 40\'s?

    Hello all
    When I first got this hat I thought it was 40's. The more I look at it however I'm getting an 80's doing 40's vibe. The label is Sandra New York and it has the Doeskin stamp inside. Any help is appreciated.
    Thanks!

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  2. sMarie

    sMarie Registered Guest

    It looks 40's or 50's to me.

    I almost looks like the heart was added later.

    I am curious to see what the experts say.
  3. grandmascloset

    grandmascloset Registered Guest

    What is confusing me is the Doeskin stamp. I thought that came later. I've been trying to find more info on it but so far no luck.
  4. Circa Vintage

    Circa Vintage Trade Member

    Do you have a photo of the doeskin stamp?

    I agree that it could be a '40s-'50s hat that has been "updated" with the addition of the heart and beaded feathers. The heart is badly sewn in a contrasting thread, which looks amateurish. The label does not look '80s.

    Nicole
  5. grandmascloset

    grandmascloset Registered Guest

    Here's a view of the doeskin label. Thanks!


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  6. sMarie

    sMarie Registered Guest

    when I searched 'doeskin hat' on google, I found a 40s hat that is similar to yours. Perhaps yours had a bow or something similar at one time.

    EDITED by Admin: Link Removed. Please do not link to non VFG trade member selling sites. Thank you.
  7. Circa Vintage

    Circa Vintage Trade Member

    I found a lot of similar hats online - I'm actually not confident of pinning the date down because it's a style that was used a lot and ornamentation is easily added (I think the ribbon and feathers on the etsy one above is not original). Hats are often ornamented after their date of manufacture.

    I found the Bollman Hat website, they're still in operation, and have been around for over 140 years. If you can find out anything about "Sandra New York" - the retailer? You might be able to pin down the date a bit more. That label looks '50s to me.

    Nicole
  8. Rue_de_la_Paix

    Rue_de_la_Paix Trade Member

    Hi,

    Hard to say exactly. It is not 80's, it is mid 1950's from all the clues I can see (label, style, etc). My research indicates that Doeskin felt makes its first appearance in the late (?)1940's, as a less expensive wool alternative the more pricey fur-felt. Of course it may have been around earlier but I find no reference to it so far. So far that is!

    The heart may or may not be original......but the feathers do look added at a later point (and look a bit cheesy/cheap to me). The ornament looks odd dead center like that, most professional milliners would put it off center or to the side. Which leads me to think they were both added later. Just sayin'.

    As far as dating it by comparison to a hat on Etsy or Ebay...my advice is....and I cannot stress this enough ..DON'T. This brings up an interesting point that I may put on another thread. The hat that someone linked to is not 1940's, although the seller claims it is, and has also been altered with an addition of inexpensive feathers and he/she got the designer wrong. So if you see a hat that claims 30's or 40's, etc....and it is not dated correctly, then you would be using an inaccurate reference for dating your own hat. At least 75% of the hats on Ebay and Etsy are dated incorrectly. Yup...75% and maybe higher. My advice is to do your own research, unless of course you trust the seller to know what they are talking about. And even then....it can be tricky.

    Barbara
  9. grandmascloset

    grandmascloset Registered Guest

    Very interesting! So the elastic bands were being used as late as the mid 50's or was this also an addition?
  10. Rue_de_la_Paix

    Rue_de_la_Paix Trade Member

    Hi,

    I cannot tell from the photo if the elastic is original to the hat. Dating a hat by the elastic not generally recommended. An elastic could be added at any time from the hat's day of original creation or many years or even decades later, or be a replacement. Elastics were used in many eras, and are still common in new hats today, so I am not sure what you mean by "as late as the 1950's".

    There are some types of elastics that can help to date a hat, but this one you show on this hat is not one of those "period" types.

    Also, the elastic looks as if it was poked right through the grosgrain headband, so it may have been added later or is a replacement.

    Does it have tiny metal anchors behind the grosgrain or is it sewn/tied to the hat?


    I hope this helps.

    B
  11. grandmascloset

    grandmascloset Registered Guest

    It has the anchors. I was asking about the elastic because I thought that by the 50's they were using either combs or the little metal grips to hold hats on. Thank you again for your help!
  12. Circa Vintage

    Circa Vintage Trade Member

    I've seen many '60s, '70s and '80s hats with elastics. I agree with Barbara about her points on dating - and etsy and ebay are not accurate places to date hats or indeed any vintage! The dates on vintage shoes are just as inaccurate as the hats, it makes me want to cry sometimes. A trusted resource is needed - or an expert opinion.

    Nicole
  13. grandmascloset

    grandmascloset Registered Guest

    I totally agree Nicole! Thanks everyone for their help!
  14. lkranieri

    lkranieri Trade Member

    I have not been able to find any 1940s ads for Sandra hats, which leads me to believe it may be later. I did, however, find this image at Stylehive. If I could see the Union Made label more clearly it might help give us an idea of when Sandra was in business. Can you look for a similar label (under the grosgrain ribbon?) on your hat?

    I certainly don't think your hat is from this far back, but I found ads for doeskin felt spats in 1919 and doeskin felt hats in 1928, so that is not going to give us any helpful clues.
  15. grandmascloset

    grandmascloset Registered Guest

    Mine doesn't have a union label only the Sandra label. I think I will go ahead and list it as 50's. Thanks everyone!

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