SABLE OR MINK? 60s? Vintage Fur Coat Voziou Brothers New York

Discussion in 'PUBLIC Vintage Fashion Q & A' started by dhardy, Jun 16, 2013.

  1. dhardy

    dhardy Registered Guest

    Hey! I'm not sure if this is sable or mink? Does anyone know anything about this label/brand? I believe its 60s based on the other clothing I got at the same estate. Its also monogrammed on the inside with the name "Virginia"

    IMG_1437 copy.JPG IMG_1441 copy.JPG IMG_1443 copy.JPG IMG_1444 copy.JPG IMG_1445 copy.JPG IMG_1448 copy.JPG IMG_1449 copy.JPG IMG_1450 copy.JPG IMG_1454 copy.JPG
     
  2. Furwise

    Furwise Administrator Staff Member

    Hi, Lovely piece of fur history here. It is muskrat fur however it looks a little bit older than the 60s. I believe based on the collar, sleeves, and piece of the lining I can see that the fur dates to sometime from the 40s to early 50s. The furrier is still in business today but is now partnered with another furrier. The business is still in New York but called Voziou-Davellin Furs.
     
    cmpollack and Pinkcoke like this.
  3. Better Dresses Vintage

    Better Dresses Vintage Trade Member

    Hm.... Doesn't look like mink OR muskrat to me, but maybe because I'm accustomed to seeing it shorn into "Hudson Seal." I think it must be unshorn muskrat. Am I right, Caryn?
     
  4. Furwise

    Furwise Administrator Staff Member

    You are correct Liza, The Muskrat fur above is natural length Muskrat and is unsheared. Muskrats have two layers of fur; their underfur which is shorter and is what keeps them warm and their guardhair which covers their underfur, is longer, and shiny which you can see in the close up photos provided by the first poster. Muskrat was sheared and colored throughout history to look like seal being termed Hudson Seal but throughout history Muskrat has also been colored and crafted to look like Mink with the fur in it's natural length; being termed Mink dyed Muskrat or River Mink. Here is a photo of part of a different Muskrat fur coat. You might notice the similar characteristics of the zigzag cut in the pelts which is often seen in Muskrat fur garments and the darker vertical stripe which is often added to make the Muskrat look more like mink.

    muskratfurcropped.jpg
     
  5. dhardy

    dhardy Registered Guest

    I appreciate all your comments. After I'm looking I feel my photos may be making the fur appear differently than it does in person. Is muskrat soft? Have we completely ruled out sable? I'm just wondering if the label would say fine furriers if it was indeed muskrat? I'm not a fur expert though ha! Caryn seems you seem to be certain and quite knowledgeable with furs.
     
  6. Furwise

    Furwise Administrator Staff Member

    Your photos are are actually pretty good. There's a slight variance in exposure from photo to photo but the fur and pelts still show very well. The underfur of Muskrat is very soft. The guardhair is more coarse. Muskrats from different regions have more or less underfur, those with more underfur feel softer. Your fur is definitely NOT Sable. Sable fur is longer, extremely soft and silky. You can blow Sable fur just ever so slightly and see movement in the individual guardhairs like the motion of blown feathers and when you lift a Sable fur jacket it feels very lightweight like the weight of a shirt. Sable pelts are also cut rectangularly and crafted together so you don't see zigzag lines like you see in your fur. The furrier would have used that label in your Muskrat fur coat just like any other coat at that time. Muskrat pelts have been crafted by fine furriers throughout time because they are more affordable and can achieve the look that some desire.
     
    Pinkcoke likes this.
  7. dhardy

    dhardy Registered Guest

    This fur is very soft thats why i asked it it was coarse. check out this eBay listing i found that says the body of thi coat i at mink, they are the same company jut different partners http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=140736486398&cmd=VIDESC I'm just very disappointed...I guess that's why I'm having a hard time accepting its muskrat....:(
     
  8. dhardy

    dhardy Registered Guest

    I just discovered this on the back? Is this any help or better than muskrat? Lol
     

    Attached Files:

  9. dhardy

    dhardy Registered Guest

    Ugh! Nevermind I guess I'll finally accept it :(
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Furwise

    Furwise Administrator Staff Member

    It's ok. Don't fret. This is all part of learning and it is a lovely piece of history. Do you see right where it says Muskrat right above Woodland Mink? Muskrat Woodland Mink is just another term used like Mink dyed Muskrat.
     
  11. dhardy

    dhardy Registered Guest

    Unfortunately I do lol :( thank you so much for all you help and being so patient! sorry for being so stubborn! Just thought for sure....oh well! Do you know what all the stamp is "saying"? What does blended and the woodland mink part mean? Like you said before it was dyed or something?
     
  12. Furwise

    Furwise Administrator Staff Member

    Anyone who comes to this forum is here to ask questions or provide answers. I am happy I was able to conclusively and correctly do so for you. Your stamp says Hollander Blended Muskrat Woodland Mink. It was a little deceptive but it was described as Muskrat being toned with the shadings of mink which really means it was dyed to look like mink like I was stating earlier. Below is an ad from the Milwaukee Journal in 1944 describing it.

    Screen Shot 2013-06-22 at 7.54.18 PM.png
     
  13. MissRita

    MissRita Registered Guest

    Glad to have someone with your knowledge here Caryn!
     
    cmpollack and Furwise like this.
  14. sewingmachinegirl

    sewingmachinegirl Administrator

    Indeed- I was thinking the same thing Rita!
     
    vgirl likes this.

Share This Page