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Hat dating help

Discussion in 'PUBLIC Vintage Fashion - Ask Questions Get Answers' started by Tamzzyn, Nov 19, 2018.

  1. Tamzzyn

    Tamzzyn Registered Guest

    Hi all!

    Picked this up today for a couple of dollars at a thrift store. Does anyone have any info about this hat? The style? The material used (what is the black decoration made from - a type of feather?)? What date? The label says John Fredrics Inc. New York.

    Thanks!

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    poppysvintageclothing likes this.
  2. 196t's

    196t's Registered Guest

    Apparently, there was a design house called John Frederics in business from 1929 to 1948. It was the result of a partnership.
    From a New York Times article dated OCT. 25, 1964:
    From a Met Museum description of a JohnFrederics hat:
    From the same New York Times article:
    Mr. John Frederics passed away in October 24th, 1964.
     
    Jonathan and Tamzzyn like this.
  3. Rue_de_la_Paix

    Rue_de_la_Paix VFG Member

    That is a great hat. I would date it to the mid 1940s, Those are indeed feathers, although they are not a naturally occurring plume. They are either ostrich or vulture/rhea (more likely) feathers which have been chemically treated to resemble egret plumage. Rally nice ones too.

    Actually, both of those above cited sources, the NY times and the Met Museum have incorrect information. Even Wikepedia has some incorrect info. But to me that is not surprising. there is a bit of conflicting facts out there on the internet.

    There was no actual person named John Frederics, it was a combination of both of their first names. In Germany Fred was born as (and known as) Frederic Hirst. Frederic Hirst came to America and later teamed up with John Harberger and they named the millinery partnership John-Frederics. At that time John did not use the name "John P. John" either.

    When they split in the late 1940s, due to supposed "designing differences" Fred Hirst bought the rights to the use the name "John-Frederics" in his millinery and other designing. so as you can see, he did not "keep his name." John Herberger went on to start his own millinery Company of "Mr. John" and began to use (among other titles he gave himself), the name of John. P. John.

    Fred Hirst did certainly go by the name "John-Frederics" after the split and was usually known by that name from that time onward. Perhaps that fact leads to the confusion.

    One of my favorite Wikipedia inaccuracies about Mr. John is this: They say that he was a "humble" man. Nothing could be further from the truth! He was like the P.T. Barnum of hats and was a king of self-promotion. He even called himself "The Emperor of Fashion".
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
  4. Tamzzyn

    Tamzzyn Registered Guest

    Thanks for the info - it's so interesting to learn about the different companies and the people behind the fashion!! I was so happy to find this today - it's in such pristine condition!
     

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