Help needed to date item

Discussion in 'PUBLIC Show and Tell - Share your treasures' started by MissV57, Mar 22, 2020.

  1. MissV57

    MissV57 Registered Guest

    Hi Everyone!

    I bought this lovely top which was marked as 1940s. However some elements make me think it is not and some that it is ! So confused

    It has both back and side zipper. Zipper is Opti but it does not look metal to me. It is hand made. Sewing is left frayed. No shoulder pads (at least none left)

    I have attached pictures!

    Thank you so much :)
     

    Attached Files:

  2. poppysvintageclothing

    poppysvintageclothing Administrator Staff Member

  3. Jonathan

    Jonathan Trade Member

    I agree, looks like a home made late 70s blouse
     
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  4. MissV57

    MissV57 Registered Guest

    Thank you so much! I did not know hand made item were still done in the 1970s.
     
  5. MissV57

    MissV57 Registered Guest

    Thank you so much for your help it really means a lot!
     
  6. Jonathan

    Jonathan Trade Member

    Judging by all the 70s patterns that I come across, I think it was still a big thing. They were still teaching sewing in Home Ec in the 70s...
     
  7. Midge

    Midge Trade Member

    I'm getting a 70s vibe as well. People are still sewing their own clothes today - you can expect to find home made items from any era :USETHUMBUP:.
     
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  8. MissV57

    MissV57 Registered Guest

    Thank you for your help :)
     
  9. claireshaeffer

    claireshaeffer Trade Member

    I have a diff. opinion--not about the date--but the construction of the blouse. I think the blouse was supposed to tuck in.
    I think this is very high end--maybe couture--that has been unfortunately been washed. That's what the fraying.
    The eye for the hook is covered and the buttonhole may be hand-made thread. Can you make a nice photo of the buttonhole without the button?

    The home sewing in the 70s was primarily quick and easy, and the design isn't quite right for homesewers in that period.

    Can you find a good section of seam allowance without frazzles that shows the stitching at the edge--maybe give the seam a quick press before taking a photo.

    I reserve the right to reverse all of the above after seeing more photos.
     
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  10. MissV57

    MissV57 Registered Guest

    Hello Claire I hope you are well and thanks for your help. Please find attached more pictures (if not suitable I can take more just let me know!) :)
    It also looks like previously the fraying was sewed although this only remains on a few place of the garment.
    However the fray alongside the zipper was sewed on a straight line (not sure this helps?)

    Thanks a ton!
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 22, 2020
  11. claireshaeffer

    claireshaeffer Trade Member

    I agree that the buttonholes are not well-made, but I've seen worse and the garment appears to have been washed.

    The zipper is sewn in with running stitches. A home-sewer would have used backstitches. The blindstitches are "loose" (next to last photo on right) for home-sewer.

    Can you find a section of seam to show the stitches on the edge? I think they are overcast, but can tell because of the fraying.
     
  12. MissV57

    MissV57 Registered Guest

    Thank you so much Claire. I have attached further picture. I am sorry of i misunderstand I have little knowledge of swing. Please let me know if this is not the edge you mean (plus I am French )

    The picture are from the bottom edge of the top. The sitches are invisible so I had to gently pull the fabric to make them appear on the photo.

    Happy to take more and sorry if I misunderstand.

    Thanks!

    Marina
     

    Attached Files:

  13. claireshaeffer

    claireshaeffer Trade Member

    Thank you, I love the photos; but that's a different stitch.

    Surjet is the name of an overcast seam. The stitch is called point de surjet. Actually, the stitches I'm looking for are on the cut edges. The thread wraps over the cut edge.

    Although you don't sew, I'll add some info about your photos for those who do. The photos you sent were not the overcast stitch, but they are very interesting and difficult to be precise about the name. They could be called slip stitches or slip hemming. I would vote for the latter since the needle has picked up only a thread of the blouse so it would not show on the outside.

    These stitches are beautifully made and I come back to thinking this might have been a couture blouse that was mistreated--washed.
     
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  14. MissV57

    MissV57 Registered Guest

    Thanks so much Claire. I am learning a lot. Please find attached the pictures of the intersections (attaching front and back and also around the sleeves) they are all the same.

    Do you also see the era being 70s?

    Many thanks

    Marina
     

    Attached Files:

  15. claireshaeffer

    claireshaeffer Trade Member

    I have an appt. and will write later with some photos. I don't see what I'm looking for.
     
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  16. claireshaeffer

    claireshaeffer Trade Member

    I found some photos to show what I am looking for.
    On the red dress (Dior), the cut edges have thread wrapped over the edges. I was looking to see if the edges which have frayed, had originally been oversewn like this.
    One of your photos looked like a straight seam which did not ravel and had no finish on the edges. My thought was that it might be the selvage (lisiere). The selvages are the finished edges of the fabric after it is woven. The gold/cream dress shows the selvage on the edge of the collar. This is a Worth dress. Worth never trimmed the selvage. He said it showed the customer the quality of the fabric; and as you can see here, he sometimes used it as a trim.



    upload_2020-3-26_14-35-39.png upload_2020-3-26_14-39-56.png upload_2020-3-26_14-35-39.png upload_2020-3-26_14-39-56.png
     
  17. MissV57

    MissV57 Registered Guest

    I see! The thing is there are alors non left :( the fraying is everwhere ans the surjette thread is gone.
    The only one part there is some is near the collar and I have attached the photo below. The thread is under the edge and in zigzag. Sorry for all the confusion and glad I have learn a lot!
     

    Attached Files:

  18. claireshaeffer

    claireshaeffer Trade Member

    I copied your 2nd photo and magnified the section between your fingers.
    The lower thread is blindstitching; on the edge above it, you can see the thread wrapping over the edge. This is what I'm looking for.
    It has fallen off all the edges which frayed and you might find the thread amongst the fraying.

    I went back to your original photos. The third photo --just before the back view--in the center shows a seam with the surjette thread on the edge

    I come back to my original thought that this is either a couture blouse or made using couture techniques; it was not homesewn. In couture, very few blouses and skirts have labels so if the blouse was part of an ensemble, it never had a label. It could have had a matching skirt or been a suit blouse with a jacket and skirt in a different fabric.

    Now you need to think about your plans for the blouse. If the seams have frayed up to the seams, you shouldn't wear it unless you reenforce the seams with a lightweight selvage or seam tape. Ask a friend who sews to help you.

    Thank you for the many photos. I've enjoyed looking at them. It's always a delight to see such beautiful construction.
     
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  19. claireshaeffer

    claireshaeffer Trade Member

    Another thought--I think the back zipper is a replacement. Someone else can date invisible zippers. I think the original zipper was shorter.

    How is the underarm zip sewn in? C
     

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