Is this Lilly Dach? hat white mink? 30's?

Is this Lilly Daché hat white mink? 30\'s?

I can't figure out what type of fur this Lilly Daché hat is made of. Although it is silky and soft like rabbit, it is not shedding or patchy like rabbit usually is and I can't imagine Lilly Daché working with rabbit anyway! I also wondered about the vintage - it has the old label that reads "Lilly Daché, Paris New York" but with a Madison Ave address. I can post a photo of the label if that would help. Thanks!

 

looks like ermine, the winter shade of members of the weasel family (mink included). Looks 60s to me. pretty!!

Ang

 

Thanks for your response - ermine was my second guess! I'm not sure about 60's though - in reality it has a cloche-like, skull cap shape, not as "beehive" as it appears on the mannequin. Here's a photo of the label.

 

hmmmm....I'm not familar with every era of her label but that may be older than 60s. Going to go look!

Ang

 

I agree with Ang with '60s or perhaps late '50s - and whilst the label is not in the label resource the closest match is from a late '50s- early '60s persian lamb jacket.

Nicole

 

Thanks so much for your responses. I did check the Label resource prior to posting and although this label is black like the one referenced from the Persian Lamb Jacket, the label design is like the earlier labels, so I'm a bit confused! I'm posting another photo with both sides visible.

 

that's an earlier label, I have a couple with that label, this one is a 40s doll/toy type hat


This is another one with that label that I sold some time ago

 

Beautiful chapeaux! Thanks for your help, I was thinking it was 30's - 40's stylistically. Maybe she used the black label for fur items...

 

Hi,

I am getting a funny feeling about this hat. It looks to be early 1960's to me, but the label is one she used in the 1940's and in the very very early 1950's. The label and the hat just don't seem to "jive' to me. It is also sewn on in an odd way. I suspect someone took the label from an earlier Dache' hat and sewed it into this fur hat. I would really have to have the hat in my hand to be sure, but it sure looks like the label and hat do not match. I have a large Dache hat collection from the 1930's to 1960s and this label and the hat seem an odd match to me.

The fur does not look like ermine. It has too "loose" of a nap and is too fluffy at the base, ermine has shorter glossier hairs, and is tighter looking. It looks like it could be rabbit, or some other fur that may have been lightened, perhaps a sheared fox?

Barbara

 

I have a bonnet-style hat created with sections sewn together that reminds me of yours, the stitching is tighter and not faggoting like yours,this one with the more common Dachettes label, I think it probably is a Dache.

 

Hi, I just re-examined the hat with flashlight and magnifying glass and the label is definitely as originally attached. I think what's causing the confusion is that the main black label has been folded in half lengthwise to match the width of the grosgrain ribbon and attached that way so it won't show through the spaces in the hat. There is an additional cloth tag stamped in black ink that is attached to the underside of the main label and I think you are seeing those stitches showing through. I have searched to find ANY Lilly Daché hat made of rabbit fur and so far have not found even one. I wouldn't think she would be working with a cheaper fur - this fur doesn't seem to be rabbit, it is not shedding at all. Thanks for your expertise and help, I really appreciate your time!

 

That is definately the old Dache label - I have only ever found it in hats up to the late 40s. There are some hat styles we associate with other, usually later, periods that show up in the late 30s and early-mid 40s, like pill boxes and skullcaps. I could see this being from the mid 40s, worn on the back of the head.

 

"...this fur doesn't seem to be rabbit, it is not shedding at all." I agree with Barbara that it looks like rabbit. They treated rabbit (coney) differently in those days. I have had several older coney pieces over the years and they do not shed. Unlike my rabbit bomber jacket I wore in the 70s that shed like crazy.

 

Thanks for your responses! I have never heard of coney. I have had several older (30's) pieces with rabbit collars, cuffs or trim and it's unmistakable, but I guess it's possible - maybe Lilly Daché did use rabbit to make this particular hat. I just haven't found any others and from what I have read about her, she seemed to take a lot of pride in her high-end line "I am…Lilly Daché, milliner de luxe."

 

Continued..

 

this is the label on the second hat I posted, which now makes its home in Italy :(



this one I still own but the net is torn:

 

Hi,

I am still trying to remember when Lilly opened the Madison Ave salon, but I think it was in 1948-1949, and the label has the Madison address. SO even if it is a Lilly, it has to be post that time. I'll post the exact date as I rummage through my reference books. It is too HOT today to even think!

Barbara

 

There is a reference to a Madison Avenue address in a book about Eleanor Roosevelt by Blanche Wiesen Cook. In 1933 during FDR"s inauguration, this is said about Eleanor Roosevelt's wardrobe "Four hats to accompany the daytime costumes were made by Mme. Lilly Daché, also of Madison Avenue."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/longterm/books/chap1/eleanorroosevelt.htm

I can see why this hat is puzzling and looks like it could accommodate a 60's beehive (small) but her hats were so inventive and she often used interesting fabrics/materials that this fur whatever it is would not be unusual. It may well be a sample piece. Tricky to line each fur piece. The hat could very well be much earlier.

I'll be interested to see where this thread goes.

 

Hi,

Thanks for the info, I better sweep the cobwebs out of my head and not post until I get my facts in order, sorry! I have too many dead milliners info swimming inside my head. Yikes....

Lilly Dache's first shop was on Broadway, then she moved to Madison Ave, and then in 1937 to the multi story building on 56th St.

So the label is earlier, but the hat still looks newer than 1940's to me. Jonathan might be right, though, and he knows his 40's fashions. It might be sample, and perhaps the lining is gone missing, as someone said. Each piece of fur would not have been individually lined, it would have had a full lining. Perhaps it was made special for an elaborate evening gown that was also trimmed in fur? It sure is an odd one! The mystery continues...

 

I wonder if anyone can help me - I found a Lilly Dache hat in a thrift shop - the label on hat is not in the resource list - it is hand wired and hand stitched - looks very old - the label says its an original Lilly Dache on inside - what year is it from anyone pls - I can post photos if that helps