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Marie France at Quorum? When? And what do I call this fabric?

Discussion in 'PUBLIC Vintage Fashion - Ask Questions Get Answers' started by Noir*Boudoir, Aug 23, 2004.

  1. Noir*Boudoir

    Noir*Boudoir Guest

    I thought this blouse/tunic was really rather lovely, in a kind of hippy-meets-Harry-Potter kind of a way. Cincher is black moss-crepe-like pulled back into a bow behind, sleeves are full and gathered at the wrist (but no button there).
    But I wouldn't mind finding out a little more about it before listing in September.

    [​IMG]

    Difficult to get the fabric to show well - first is kind of natural, the second with a full-on flash (I really need to try and work on those pictures).

    So, first of all, it seems like a rather Ossie-esque early 70s style, right? But what about zees Marie France? Qui est/etait-elle? Someone hired after Quorum were bought out? Or what?

    [​IMG]
    Sorry about the quality of that shot - my camera somehow didn't like this one. Will have to scan if it's needed for the label resource (?)

    And finally, what do I call this double layered fabric? It's opaque black fine mesh, with a striped multi-coloured underlayer that shows through in a moon and stars pattern that almost seems stamped through it. Here you can see what the underlayer looks like:

    [​IMG]

    You can see that in the 'stamped' parts, the black shows through the underlayer in turn.

    What on earth is it??

    Grateful for all suggestions!

    Many thanks
    Lin
     
  2. premierludwig

    premierludwig Registered Guest

    Marie France joined Quorum after Radley became involved... and the "Ossie Clark for Radley" mass-produced label began in 1969... so it has to be shortly after that I guess. So it should be an early 70s item.

    I'm afraid that's all I know. :(

    I hope you find out what that fabric is, I've never seen anything like it, very intriguing...

    love, moons and starrs,
    Senti.*
     
  3. fuzzylizzie

    fuzzylizzie Alumni

    Yes, I would love to have this for our label resource!

    Lizzie
     
  4. Noir*Boudoir

    Noir*Boudoir Guest

    Thanks Senti! I guess that dovetails with the vibe I was getting from the style. I'll maybe try and do a bit of off-line research about her - it would be interesting to know what else she produced and whether it was particularly different from the Pollock-Clark stuff - going by this, perhaps it wasn't?(?)

    Still hoping for offers on the fabric style!
    L

    ps. Senti - your dress is in the post!
    pps. Lizzie - I need to do a big scanning session soon, I'll have to get myself organized...
     
  5. emmapeelpants

    emmapeelpants Alumni

    Ooooooh, that is so *me*!!!! Yum!!

    Sorry I'm no help!!
     
  6. Patentleathershoes

    Patentleathershoes VFG Veteran VFG Past President

    there is a country...and i am trying to remember which one.....darnit...I can't remember....that has the moon and star in that exact orientation to eachother on its flag...

    Also the fabric in the last pic reminds me strongly...sans moon and star of my furniture years and fabrics that we had on very traditional furniture..if you had bees on those stripes you had napoleonic...we had a Louis 14 chair in a different colorway but very close striped pattern. The top pictures do not give me that vibe at all. That doesn't mean anything....its just nonsense, but that came into my brain.

    Would this not be a specific fabric but a unique design..where the textile (which was the regular fabric that came from the mill) was sewn up or joined with the mesh layer by the designer...a unique "treatment" vs part of the actual fabric production? an "overlay?"
     
  7. Noir*Boudoir

    Noir*Boudoir Guest

    Ooh, you mean Turkey? As soon as you said it, I could see what you mean! Though I'm not sure the echo would have been intentional. The Islamic crescent is a bit more curved round too. But maybe I can sell it to a real Turkish patriot!

    But hang on... it could be kind of Ottoman influenced, in style and colour, I suppose... (wild supposition time).

    I see what you mean about the fabric (and that's very interesting about upholstery parallels) - it does seem more traditional on its own. It's just this stamping - perhaps heat stamping? - which has transformed it.
    Thanks for those thoughts!
    L
     
  8. Patentleathershoes

    Patentleathershoes VFG Veteran VFG Past President

    a ha ..Turkey! anyhow, now that you mention it, the collar et all sort of gives me an ottoman/byzantine feel.

    interesting though listening (reading) the other threads about Dollyrockers et al, about the fabric going more back in time as the years went on and the 70s got closer...maybe this is doing something similar..or maybe i am just crazy...
     
  9. Noir*Boudoir

    Noir*Boudoir Guest

    Hmmm, I just had a look in my only ottoman reference (actually a fairly slim exhibition catalogue) and nothing's leaping out as a parallel, so perhaps not that specifically.

    But now that we're on this tack, I'm now convinced there's something a little mid-Asian riding tunic about this... I think it's still the fabric that's making me thing that, tho'. Probably over-analysing wildly now.
    ...
     
  10. Patentleathershoes

    Patentleathershoes VFG Veteran VFG Past President

    i will have to find a pic about what i mean....the word is not coming to mind...

    anyway...its a unique item...and maybe there is an obviously simple answer that is staring us right in the face and we are thinking to much to think about it...or its just that unique.

    sorry i am no help!
     
  11. kevinjohnnyc

    kevinjohnnyc Registered Guest

    It totally looks Turkish. Or something along those lines. There were a lot of ethnic references around at that time... just my first impression...

    kj
     
  12. emmapeelpants

    emmapeelpants Alumni

    Check out the latest Ossie for Radley listed on eBay, it features this pattern - embroidered around the neckline!
     
  13. Noir*Boudoir

    Noir*Boudoir Guest

    Yes! I just got led there by my e-mail notification and rushed over here! Great minds, etc etc.

    Very interesting similarity. I'll add the pic and a link:

    [​IMG]

    So a definite full-on Ossie influence, then? Darn, I wish I could find an Ossie gown like that (always envying other people's!).
     
  14. emmapeelpants

    emmapeelpants Alumni

    I saw you were going to sell an Ossie for Radley - do you have any you've kept yourself? I only have one now (sold one to fund this computer).....one day, one day.....

    ;)
     
  15. Noir*Boudoir

    Noir*Boudoir Guest

    Yup, that one is definitely going to the block, and I've yet to find another...
    :( . I'd love to find a green or cream one hidden in a corner of 'Save the Children'. A friend has a very suspiciously Ossie-esque plain 'Radley' gown, that she's definitely not parting with.

    Is the one you're keeping the one you showed on the VCA board recently? I thought that was fabulous!

    I've wavered, to be sure; but it is a bit big for me, and it's not my favourite colour (I'm prejudiced against most royal and navy blues - a school uniform trauma thing...).

    I've been tempted to keep it a while longer, but really my storage isn't up to non-wearable collecting (well not more than two or three dresses, and that space is already taken!). So I've resorted to picky reasons for not keeping it.

    Ebay's had a few of them recently haven't they? And their fortunes seem to be a little mixed - it's the more unusual ones that go for top dollar. I'm having difficulty actually *listing* this one, even though I've theoretically taken the decision! Wavering over start price etc.

    I'll get round to it eventually.

    I *like* this one that's up now though, I bet it will go quite high.
    L
     
  16. emmapeelpants

    emmapeelpants Alumni

    Yes, the black moss crepe with satin yoke! That was vintage karma - not sure it'll happen again!! I've had more luck with Varons in charity shops! I can relate to the size issue.....mostly my 'collection' consists of pieces in my size (more by accident than design) but my one and only Biba dress is too big for me. I often feel torn. Should I buy another that fits me and sell this one?

    There was a sudden surfeit of Ossies this past week wasn't there? Oddly enough, I've never really seen one that has made me want to win it by hook or by crook. They're so pricey, you have to really WANT the one you're bidding on. Varon was the only label I bought regardless, and even now I'm getting fussy about them. There are a couple of horrors on at the moment!

    I'm always amused by the lack of priorities with some buyers. Some really naffy Ossie for Radleys go for £200++, yet an ultra rare 1967 satin minidress goes for £140. That came at the wrong time for me, if it were on now I'd definitely splurge. Likewise, Mary Quant-style modern dresses will go for upwards of £50, and I got a real one ages ago - really early one with the gold label - for around £50. It's just daft!! :mad:

    My school uniform was blue too. We were referred to as smurfs ;)

    I think you'll do really well with it! I think wearable pieces (it looks knee length?) are so much better to have and that definitely looks wearable. Was that a Save The Children find? We don't have one of them anywhere near here - but they can be *so* good for vintage!!
     
  17. Noir*Boudoir

    Noir*Boudoir Guest

    We were referred to as smurfs Oh no! It all comes flooding back - the bland v-neck cheapo blue woollen, the nasty pale-blue co-ordinating shirts... yeuch.
    I swear, 80% of my historic Gothicness was the result of my desperate effort to get away with wearing a more palatable black sweater instead of the blue...

    Yes, Varons seem to be easier to come by than even plain Radleys - strangely, 'cos I would have thought Radley was the bigger firm. Alas, that Ossie wasn't a Save the Children find, it was an 'investment' buy from a vintage shop. I just think it was priced to sell to non-fashion fans in the vintage store and I knew I could either keep it, or reach the real fans, so I carried it off. It's perfect apart from some discoloration on the seams under the arms, so that may lower the price a tad.

    I'm going to wait out the current glut and see what happens in a week or two - I think this is a very wearable autumn to winter dress. And, a virtue as far as I'm concerned, it also works as a day/office dress.

    Unfortunately I'm pretty good at these brutal 'not the dress for me' keeping decisions. I bought a black velvet Sarah Whitworth corset dress a while ago with the thought that I'd keep it as an example of how good a vampish gothic dress could be, but that one's on the way out too.

    Reasons? A teensy bit too small and... blue trimmings! Stupid. I should keep it, but it's 'not the one'. I'm sure my grandchildren will curse me.

    Brand loyalty in thrifts :D ? My current favourites are MIND (for being nice) and Marie Curie (for pricing two 50s dresses more or less in my range, for once). My current Betes Noires are Traid (late 70s polyester for £22? in Brixton? are you kidding?) and Oxfam 'Vintage'. The latter have a fab Mod 'Dress by Wendy' dress suit for £50 at the moment. I just gaze. They had a Varon catsuit a while back which I couldn't afford either. But their pricing resembles the buying patterns you're talking about, it can (luckily) be erratic - they didn't recognize (and nor did I, for a while) a Valentino label on a jacket I spirited off recently. ;)

    Mind, I got very excited about a pigskin Waldybag this weekend until I realised that the shop had also twigged, and priced it at £25. Sigh.

    My vintage picking is still very spasmodic and patchy. A great anthropological study though...
    L
     
  18. emmapeelpants

    emmapeelpants Alumni

    My favourite shop has to be Princess Alice around here. I've bought some awesome Varons from there, and even got a Westwood Red Label skirt for a fiver (for myself). Varon catsuit??? *weeeeeep* - what did it look like? You'd probably have had a buyer in me at least!! A Scope near me recently started selling vintage......£25 for a, albeit not ugly, polyester draped cream goddess dress - with black ink marks on the front. :mad:

    Sarah Whitworth, I love her work! One SERIOUSLY underrated designer if you ask me! I once had a raw silk wedding dress by her. It was extraordinary! It had this intricately pleated bustle, layers and layers of petticoats and an Elvis-style bolero to go with it! I also more recently sold a black velvet bustle mini dress with pink silk trimmings. Got a lot of watchers but only one bid - I'd advise a high start price for her work because I've never seen a fight over one. Such a shame! I'd put her on a par with Westwood.

    <i>Oh no! It all comes flooding back - the bland v-neck cheapo blue woollen, the nasty pale-blue co-ordinating shirts... yeuch. </i>

    Unfortunately, our uniform had to be bought from John Lewis. Our school had a 'unique' uniform which couldn't be bought anywhere else. Even the skirts. In the 4th year, however, we were allowed to wear any type of grey skirt as long as it was regulation length. I managed to aquire an ankle length grey skirt with four splits up to halfway up my thigh. They couldn't touch me for it because there was nothing in the rules about splits. Ahhhh, such a rebel......;)
     
  19. emmapeelpants

    emmapeelpants Alumni

    I tell a lie, I think we had to buy from Bentalls. Ugh. ;)
     
  20. Noir*Boudoir

    Noir*Boudoir Guest

    I think we had to buy from Bentalls.

    All I can say is, Yikes. :mad:

    Very jealous at a distance of the VW red label skirt - that halves my VW bargain record! Sounds like an excellent shop.

    And talking of Sarah Whitworth, that is her based in Brighton now, right? I hope she's making a mint from her exclusive wedding designs, if so. I'm afraid to say I was probably one of the non-bidding watchers on your corset dress auction! I was curious at the time to see how it would do - a really lovely dress.

    I think I'll put mine in my Mall store for a decent amount in a few weeks, and just leave it there. I had thought of listing it in the Goth category, but I'd seriously risk it going for pennies there (or not at all). The only Sarah Whitworth dress I saw a bidding war over was a beautiful short one, in the same style as yours, but with a line of red satin roses over the bustle, at the base of the lacing. Even then it went for under £30 and I was really p'd off that I'd forgotten to bid.

    I think the only plus side to that situation is that the fact that she's underrated will mean maybe I'll find it easier to find 'my perfect example' of one of her dresses!

    Anyway, back to the Quorum top for a second (hauls in a long fishing line) - I'm thinking of listing that at the same time as the Ossie, to get the maximum 'right' looks. I'm considering e-mailing the seller of the parallel dress to ask her whether I could use a close up of that embroidery to show the influence. Not sure how she'd take it, but it's worth trying at least...

    Anyway, half the fun of listing is all the musing and discussion beforehand!
    L
     

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