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Strange elbief bag- Date help??

Discussion in 'PUBLIC Vintage Fashion - Ask Questions Get Answers' started by VintageFray, Apr 4, 2008.

  1. VintageFray

    VintageFray Alumni

    hello, I found this unusual vinyl bag the other week, and I was wondering if anyone could help me date it?
    When I first picked it up I thought it must be a modern bag, but on closer inspection it does have some age to it- I'm thinking 1960's.

    The frame is stamped "elbief england", but other than that no labels, the strap has clips that enable you to turn it into a handbag, and even a sort of backpack- (there’s two loops at the bottom that you can clip the straps on to)

    Unfortunately the lining is a bit damaged in the inside, but other than that its is really good order. Its lined in taffeta.

    it kind of reminds me of a over long sporan :lol:

    Any help appreciated, thank you!
    [​IMG]


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  2. poppysvintageclothing

    poppysvintageclothing Administrator Staff Member

    This bag looks to be quite early by its interior...and it looks like it may be lizard or snakeskin rather than vinyl.

    The strap is throwing me off though as far as the age goes, because the strap the way it is now looks more like the late 60s or 70s.

    There are those two loops at the bottom of the purse, could it be that the strap is meant to go through these and fit up along the side of the purse?
     
  3. VintageFray

    VintageFray Alumni

    It'd definitely not any sort of real animal skin, it has a very plastic feel to it, and it's also backed with that sort of thin orange-y wadding.

    As to the strap I really have no idea. I just guessed that it's one of those multi purpose straps that you could do what you liked with, but here’s a picture of it with the clips in the bottom loops-

    [​IMG]



    It’s a bit confusing :scratchchin:
     
  4. vintagebaubles

    vintagebaubles Administrator Staff Member

    Yes, it is a bit odd.... very cute bag, but very unusual! I've had Elbief bags before, but nothing like this. The interior looks quite old, as Mary Jane says, but the exterior styling looks newer than the inside! The giant ball kiss lock looks more like those I've seen from the latter 70s (I've seen several Ruth Saltz bags with that style on them)... The frame also looks later than the ones I've had from the late 50s/early 60s. I think the 2nd way of attaching the strap looks like it might have been the original method? I don't know--it is a cutie, though!!!! Can't help with the dating any more than that, which isn't much.

    Elbief bags weren't marked with maker's tags or labels as far as I can tell--that stamp on the inside of the frame is all I've ever seen on one. I think all I've seen labeled on them may have been label as to material ("genuine leather").
     
  5. vertugarde

    vertugarde Alumni

    What an interesting find. Elbief Co. Ltd. (and Kaufmann) introduced a patent for a ladies handbag in 1945 and you have to work hard to understand the description in the link below but there might be some features that resemble the handbag that you have.

    http://www.wikipatents.com/gb/586362.html

    I think it is an unusual design and may be quite rare. Is it possible to get a close up of the Elbief stamp?
     
  6. VintageFray

    VintageFray Alumni

    Yes it's such a strange bag that I couldn't not have bought it! It just wanted to take it home and figure out what it was. But it's still a bit baffling!

    the lining really does look like it outdates the bag, when I first picked it up I thought maybe 90’s but I really don’t think it’s as late as that. Where elbief even producing bags past a certain date? I’ve not been able to find much about the company.

    It’s near impossible to get a photo of the stamp, but its near identical to this one on ruby lane-
    http://www.rubylane.com/shops/hoosiercollectibles/item/5501

    That patent info is very interesting, the "u" shaped frame sounds right, but could it possibly be as early as the 1945?
     
  7. vertugarde

    vertugarde Alumni

    The frame shape would be consistent with styles that you see in the 40's. I'd be tempted to pull back a bit of the lining to get a better look at the orangey wadding you say backs the vinyl?

    Could be 50's. It is confusing with the 'harness' strap which was was a feature in the 70's.

    You need to find out when Elbief started their business. I'd contact specialist dealers.
     
  8. vintagebaubles

    vintagebaubles Administrator Staff Member

    Rosine, is the "orangey wadding" a tricot, by any chance? If so, that would narrow it down a bit.
     
  9. VintageFray

    VintageFray Alumni

    Here's a picture of the wadding, there’s a rip in the lining, which is convenient really:
    [​IMG]


    It's a spongy thin wadding.
    I don't know what tricot is?
    I'll keep searching for more info on elbief, there’s bound to be something out there about when they first started producing bags….
     
  10. vertugarde

    vertugarde Alumni

    Picking back the lining was worth doing. Spongy. Yes, I can just see that tell-tale shimmer. I'm glad the term 'wadding' was clarified. Oh, well that isn't 40's and it is probably 70's. Anne knows the maker better than I do.

    Tricot - From a reference source;

    'Because the pattern for tricot fabric is a close knit design with the fibers running lengthwise while employing an interlooped yarn pattern, the texture of tricot is a little different from some other types of material. One side will feature fine ribs running in a lengthwise pattern, while the other side will feature ribs that run in a crosswise direction. The finished look of tricot is that of a sturdy yet soft material that can be ideal for a number of applications.

    One of the more common uses of tricot fabricis in the creation of liners for pieces of luggage, jewelry boxes and clothing storage containers. Tricot is a non-elastic fabric that will hold its shape for a number of years, so the linings do not begin to sag or billow as the container ages. Because tricot is fairly durable, the liner will also show very little in the way of wear or tear, even with frequent use.'
     
  11. VintageFray

    VintageFray Alumni

    thanks for you're help, I'll go with 70's :spin:
     
  12. vintagebaubles

    vintagebaubles Administrator Staff Member

    Rosine, one of my mottos, though not a hard & fast rule, is "If it's tricot, it must be 70s! (or late 60s)"

    I do not recall when tricot started & stopped being used in shoes, bags, etc., but I "lived" in that era and remember it being ubiquitous in the 60s & 70s. I sell a lot of shoes, and many of the boots from the mid 60s into the mid 70s used tricot linings, which by now are finally starting to crumble. Your bag's lining definitely looks like tricot from the photos and from your description of it. Tricot can be in a very thin knit-like lining sort of fabric, or that spongy stuff that is like, well, a sponge! I'm not sure it that is nylon as well--might have some cellulose or similar in it. But, yes, I'd say the bag is 70s...
     

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