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vintage Chanel fur coat - authentic? Too messed up?

Discussion in 'PUBLIC Vintage Fashion - Ask Questions Get Answers' started by Melissa Lynn, Mar 16, 2014.

  1. Melissa Lynn

    Melissa Lynn Registered Guest

    I recently acquired a vintage Chanel coat and I do believe it to be authentic based on its tag. It appears to be from the 60s based on the label guide but maybe even 70s? And couture? There are no other tags.

    I love the coat but I fear I paid too much for it. It has a lot of issues and I realize now they may not be easily fixable. I believe the fur to be Persian lamb (unless you think otherwise?) and there are bald spots and patches. It's got a great look to me but I am not sure of someone would wear it because of the issues. Is this a value-less piece of vintage fashion or will a collector enjoy it? Should I be concerned about its authenticity?

    Thanks for any feedback!
     

    Attached Files:

  2. peaceful vintage

    peaceful vintage Administrator Staff Member

    Hi Melissa, We don't authenticate here but it does appear to be Lamb, not sure if Persian or not. It looks very developed like Curly Lamb.
     
  3. Melissa Lynn

    Melissa Lynn Registered Guest

    Hi Caryn,

    So sorry I didn't know that! Thank you for your input on the type of fur. It definitely isn't tight like typical Persian lamb.

    Can anyone tell me what they think about the era of this coat based on the style and or the tag? I have never seen a Chanel fur coat -- is it something they did?
     
  4. Jonathan

    Jonathan VFG Member

    You have a 1930s (looks like broadtail lamb to me) coat, and an early Chanel on your hands. It looks to be a clutch style (no fastenings) and those were popular mid 1930s.
     
  5. peaceful vintage

    peaceful vintage Administrator Staff Member

    I do agree with Lamb but it's not Broadtail Lamb. Broadtail lamb is premature and has a flat surface with wavy markings. As Lamb or sheep age the wool develops more curl and becomes looser off the pelt.
     
  6. The label does not look 30s both in typeface and the pointed ends. The numbering also appears to suggest circa late 60s, early 70s - I had a late 60s suit where the numbering started with 37 and yours looks like it starts with 39. That being said, I'm not sure how Chanel numbered couture in the 30s and whether or not after the war she would have repeated numbers.

    Maybe the label does not belong to the coat?

    Do you know what type of lining it has? And could you show some photos of the interior finishing?
     
  7. claireshaeffer

    claireshaeffer VFG Member

    The number is late 60s. They started over in 1953.
     
  8. Jonathan

    Jonathan VFG Member

    i read it completely wrong. I thought I was looking at a silk jersey or faille lining, and the typeface on the number seemed too old fashioned for the 60s/70s
     
  9. Jonathan

    Jonathan VFG Member

    Actually... I wonder if someone added that label into an older coat. That coat doesn't look like anything I have ever seen for Chanel from the late 60s or early 70s.
     
  10. peaceful vintage

    peaceful vintage Administrator Staff Member

    No worries Melissa. As you can see while some recognize the label and numbers it's difficult to know from photos whether the label is original to the coat. I get what Jonathan is saying about thinking the coat was 30s based on the styling of the coat and the lining. I would like to know more about the lining. It might help me to better determine date. Could you possibly show a photo of the lining and do you know what the lining fabric is?
     
  11. Melissa Lynn

    Melissa Lynn Registered Guest

    Thank you so much everyone for the input. I must say, Jonathan, that after you said the coat looked 30s, I realized that it did look much older than I initially thought though of course as everyone is saying, the label says late 60s - 70s couture.

    So the lining is a bit of a mystery to me and the sleeve bit is different from the coat one -- one likely is not original? The coat lining is a dull sort of fabric and I really don't know what it is - the closest thing I can compare it to is crepe and to my very untrained eye this fabric appears to be quite old. The sleeve lining is a shinier material and not like silk or rayon -- almost feels more synthetic to me but again, I have no clue.

    Attached are more photos of the fur (it is a flat wavy with areas of loose curl) and the lining. I hope this helps get some more information as this coat is such a mystery to me!
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Jonathan

    Jonathan VFG Member

    I am looking at this again, and I am going back to my initial thoughts. That label is pre 1954 - I haven't handled a lot of Chanel, but I can't think of one example with the label folded into points at the end that dates after 1954. I don't love how the sleeves are sewn into the body of the lining - it looks crude for Chanel, but I think the coat may have been relined. It would be best to handle this of course to really tell, but I am just not seeing anything that is saying 60s/70s to me.
     
  13. peaceful vintage

    peaceful vintage Administrator Staff Member

    Alright. Thank you for those additional photos. First, to be technically correct the Lamb is Karakul Lamb or sheep. The spelling variation Caracul is also sometimes used. The term broadtail does not refer to the type of lamb but rather the age of the Lamb. Once the lamb or sheep is 3 days old or older it starts to lose some of it's tightly coiled curls and they get looser and some of the black coloring changes as well. That is what is seen in your coat so it is older than Broadtail. The term Persian refers to the origin the lamb or sheep is from. The origin could be Persian or Astrakhan. If you are offering for sale unless you see an indicating stamp you could use tags for both as it could be Persian or Astrakhan but it is definitely Karakul and it is curly so you could correctly call it Curly Karakul Lamb.

    As for the age, what I think I see in the lining photos if it is original looks like a Rayon lining with cotton sleeves which to me according to how linings of coats were being made in combination with style and length would indicate early to mid 30s. The shoulders look a little boxy to me and if the lining were all Rayon I might believe 40s too but that lining brings me further in agreement with Jonathan to dating the coat to 30s.
     
  14. Melissa Lynn

    Melissa Lynn Registered Guest

    Thank you both for the extra information -- so interesting to learn all of these things!

    The labels I saw on the label resource guide don't look all that different from mine and they say "from a 60s couture..." -- does my label have a different identifying factor from those? I'd love to know if it definitely is pre-1954 so that's why I ask.
     
  15. The label is like the 60s couture labels in our resource:
    http://vintagefashionguild.org/label-resource/chanel/

    Including the late 60s suit I donated to a certain museum :rolleyes:

    Are you sure you don't mean the label on the coat is post 1954?

    My feeling is the label may not belong to the coat.
     
    peaceful vintage likes this.
  16. Jonathan

    Jonathan VFG Member

    I couldn't get at the Chanel 60s suit I got from you Deborah because its buried in the museum's off-site storage right now, and I didn[t have a photo of the label, but I could have sworn it had a rectangular label - but I acquiesce to your observation on that. I guess then its a style of label that existed before and after because I know I have seen it in 1930s dresses, not 20s, but 30s. If the label is original to that coat, one thing we know for sure is it can't date between Spring 1940 and fall 1953 because Chanel wasn't in business.
     
  17. Melissa Lynn

    Melissa Lynn Registered Guest

    So Jonathan, you have seen a 1930s garment that had a similar looking label?

    I didn't know that about Chanel not being in business for that long -- I knew during the war but didn't know it wasn't until 1953 that the business started up again. Wow, am I learning. Thank you!
     
  18. peaceful vintage

    peaceful vintage Administrator Staff Member

    Yes, I do agree with Deborah for two reasons that the label may not belong to the coat. I believe the coat is older than the label.
    I am fairly confident that the coat itself dates either to the 30s or the 40s and if it weren't for the lining again I would lean more towards 40s.
     
  19. Melissa Lynn

    Melissa Lynn Registered Guest

    I guess that is possible.

    I am no expert but I don't see any other needle holes on the side where the label is falling off a bit, which had initially led me to believe that the very least the lining is original to the tag. I know what you are all saying about the crude sewing of the sleeve lining and the design and construction being simple so I just don't know what to think other than it had be relined at some point or like you've all said the label just isn't as early as the coat.
     
  20. claireshaeffer

    claireshaeffer VFG Member

    Most of the Chanel labels I have post 1954 have similar labels. The 50s labels are usually tan and slightly smaller.
     

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