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Vogue Special Design dress dating.. pattern resource?

Discussion in 'PUBLIC Vintage Fashion - Ask Questions Get Answers' started by Vmode, Jan 29, 2012.

  1. Vmode

    Vmode Registered Guest

    Hi all,

    I'm hoping someone can help to datestimate this dress, heavy brocade satin with inverted pleats to the front and back skirt and back metal zip. Lovely neck detail with kind of exterior 'strap' layer- how would that be described?- with choice of two belts, and the Vogue Special Design label... I've been trying to track down the exact pattern from a few different Voguey resources with no luck as they don't have every pattern no., so if anyone can give a ballpark date of when this design was popular it would be a great help!

    Am I right in thinking it's sometimes possible to identify the designer from the pattern, is it stated on the packet?

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    Cheers!
     
  2. Pinkcoke

    Pinkcoke Alumni

    We have an entry for vogue labels here. Though your particular label is not featured so it would be good if you could submit a cropped/re-sized version in the label thread once the dress is dated.

    Your dress could be from the 50's or 60's it's hard to tell without seeing how full the skirt is, it looks like more material is hidden under those pleats in which case I would go with 50's. The label also looks more like the earlier examples in colour and style though this is only an indication.

    As for finding out the designer from the pattern packet, unless you have the original pattern with the dress you can't know if it hasn't been changed from the original design. There is good pattern wiki going if you google for it that aims to date and get images for the recorded pattern no.s
     
  3. Vmode

    Vmode Registered Guest

    Yeah I'm just getting a clearer photo to submit to the label resource! I was roughly dating at kinda mid 50s, but there's so so many patterns to work through I'm hoping to be able to narrow it down a little. I know I have a pattern book of the 40s-60s here somewere that features the neckline detail, so that'll help.. If I ever find it..

    I've seen some label examples from around '62-3 *If I remember correctly* that had the later 'Special Design' design, and some early 50s *If I remember correctly again* with my label design.

    I'll try and get over to my mannequin basecamp and get a shot of it, so folk can see the intended fit.
    I just happened to be walking past a stall in Camden Market yesterday that was closing down and came away with this dress and a massive load of other bargains... '40s jacket, 2 '60s evening dresses, and a Marshall & Snelgrove fur hat for £5 each! Then had a pizza. It was a good saturday.
     
  4. Retro Ruth

    Retro Ruth Administrator Staff Member

    With the help of google images, I've worked out that it looks like they stopped using this label design in 1957.

    They show the label design on the front of the pattern packet, and the patterns are dated.

    1956 patterns all show this label, 1958 patterns show the later label, and 1957 patterns show one or the other.

    This was a quick check, but if you want to check further you can. I looked a handful of patterns from each year.

    So you can work on the assumption that your dress is 1957 at the latest.
     
  5. Vmode

    Vmode Registered Guest

    Hey Ruth,

    I found some yesterday from '51 and '52 like mine, but the lettering wasn't in gold, and a '57 with either label.. trawling through 43 pages of the Special Design patterns had me seeing Special Design patterns with my eyes closed!

    Here's the dress on a half-form, if you could excuse the bright orange 60s bikini she's wearing underneath, and the tub of buttons.. What looks like a center pleat is just a crease, she hasn't been pressed yet :)

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  6. Retro Ruth

    Retro Ruth Administrator Staff Member

  7. joules

    joules VFG Member

    Hurrah!
    Hats off Ruth!

    What a pretty 50s brocade dress.

    Here is the reissued pattern's description:
    "MISSES’/MISSES’ PETITE DRESS: Fitted dress, has princess seams, back zipper, flared skirt with inverted pleats at sides, side front and side back. Inside yoke extends above neckline. Lower calf length. B: contrast yoke and three-quarter length sleeves."
     
  8. Vmode

    Vmode Registered Guest

    Gold star for Ruth!! That looks pretty much exatly the same, I think we can say it's the one. Yay! I've seen it dated by Vogue as '57 and the Commercial Pattern Archive as '55.. one website I found has referred to the CoPA as more trustworthy, who are we to believe?!

    .. Gold star for me for guessing 'kinda mid 50s'..? :p

    Good bit of detective work.
     
  9. The Vintage Merchant

    The Vintage Merchant Administrator Staff Member

    Just a note ~ remember that even though the pattern was made in 57, the dress may not have been sewn until a (much) later date possibly. I know that when my mom found a pattern that fit well and was flattering for her figure, she would continue to sew it for events years after acquiring the pattern itself.

    the reason this even came to mind is that floral brocades were very popular in the 60s, too...

    just food for thought.

    And congratulations on a terrific vintage (and pizza) day!! sounds like fun, VMode!
     
  10. Retro Ruth

    Retro Ruth Administrator Staff Member

    yes, I saw that discrepancy on the dates. Not sure what to make of that. I was hoping to find an image of the back of the envelope which should show the date, but I can't find it. The reissued pattern states 1957.
     
  11. joules

    joules VFG Member

    Um hmm, glad you mentioned that Mary; I was thinking along the same lines.
     
    The Vintage Merchant likes this.
  12. Vmode

    Vmode Registered Guest

    Ahh good point Mary, the inner construction and sleeve finishing etc. looks similar to some of my mid to later 50s dresses, but I'm happy just knowing the pattern date for now :)

    I was dead chuffed with my finds! All the second hand and charity shops here in London seem to have clocked on to what to look for with vintage, what would previously be regarded as old tat in there, so I rarely have any exciting 'thrift store finds' anymore... I went back today to buy a beaded 40s dress suit (£30) that I didn't have the cash for yesterday, and it had already gone :'( Can't win em all.

    Thanks guys!
    Ava
     
  13. The Vintage Merchant

    The Vintage Merchant Administrator Staff Member

  14. TangerineBoutique

    TangerineBoutique VFG Member

  15. Both dates might be right for the pattern - pattern companies commonly produce a pattern for many years. I used to do a lot of sewing when I was younger, and spent many hours with pattern books. Some patterns appeared for five or more years. So it could have first appeared in 1955 and then still been printed in 1957. When it was reissued, they may have taken the details from a '57 issue.

    It's a beautiful dress in a popular style and great fabric - I agree that it could have been made in the '60s because that floral brocade was popular then, but I've also seen quite a few late '50s frocks in it too.

    Here's some applause for Ruth and her detective skills :clapping:
     
  16. Retro Ruth

    Retro Ruth Administrator Staff Member

    Aw thanks guys!

    And yes, glad to know you are Ava, Ava!
     
  17. poppysvintageclothing

    poppysvintageclothing Administrator Staff Member

  18. Vmode

    Vmode Registered Guest

    There goes my mystery (wrapped in an enigma) :)

    If you can't quite see in the pics, the brocade design has swooping birds and butterflys as well as the florals and vines- gorgeous!

    A.
     
  19. Vmode

    Vmode Registered Guest

    Well I was kind of debating the purchase of the suit, it had some marks on the front and was more expensive than the other items... I wanted to research the treatments required to tackle the marks first! Ah well, one less thing hanging in the bathroom waiting for some attention..!

    On that note, I tried a cleaning solution that I picked up the day after in John Lewis London called Gonzo- US Guilders probably know about it but I've never seen it in the UK before- it claims to remove faaaar more stain culprits than is possible without black magic, so I was dubious, but it actually worked a treat.
    The reason the pieces were so cheap in the shop (other than it being their last weekend before downsizing) was that they weren't in the best condition with some spotted discolouration.. but it brought a, ahem, 'white' cotton day dress back to life that I was otherwise planning to dye-camoflage, and got rid of almost all nasty armpit discolouration on 2 other pieces. Check it out if you don't already have it in your cupboards!
     
  20. Pinkcoke

    Pinkcoke Alumni

    I'll be looking that one up Vmode, was it expensive? (we all know John Lewis can be horrendous)
     

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