St Michael label dresses

Pinkcoke

Pinkcoke

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I have these two St Michael label dresses which I wanted to check the dating on before I submit the labels to our resource as we don't have either. I read the old thread on all the M&S labels but these two are in that void between what we know. I wondered if Ruth may have more information on that label document she got from M&S? - they never got back to me...

This came from the big house clearance I did ages ago (still got two bags to go through...!), in which there was nothing later than early 70's but I thought this looked late 60's/early 70s. Linen texture fabric, quite heavy. Buckle marked will not rust. (interestingly the belt is almost the same as that on a RAF suit I have yet to date) The bold print washing label symbols are unlike any I have seen, particularly that green one (which looks like radiator dry? lol), so I'm thinking this is an earlier label - I really think it would be useful to include this side/secondary label with the main in the resource, as it helps to differentiate between the ones we have.

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I thought this dress was either late 1970s or early 1980s, the red is darker in reality, combined with the ruffle front, slim bell sleeves and neck tie pushes me towards the former.
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Nicoles spot on !
They are after 1975 becuse the have French on them and M&S opened ther first shop in Europe in 1975
 
The first dress was definitely made for the Canadian market for two reasons. Firstly, the coloured international cleaning symbols were only used in Canada (the green box with the three marks means hang dry), here is a link to a blog I wrote about the meaning of the symbols in Canada: http://kickshawproductions.com/blog/?p=1286

Secondly the CA01295 is a Canadian industy registration number for 'Marks and Spencer Canada', but the date is wrong on the database because when it was computerized in 1997, the original dates of application all defaulted to the current date. I explain it in this blog: http://kickshawproductions.com/blog/?p=2327

I also wrote a blog about the St. Michael's brand in Canada which began in 1973 which secures a 'no earlier than' date: http://kickshawproductions.com/blog/?p=1180
I would thought the first dress was 1974-75, and the second dress, which may have been made for the French market as Pauline suggests, is more like 1980-82

Now, the only question is why would they sell M&S merch for other markets in the UK?
 
I'll see if I can add to Jonathans info, but it won't be before tomorrow. Happy to send you that doc Melanie, message me your email address. I also have several books on M&S.

Gayle the St Michael label was used until 2000 as the M&S house brand. In the 90s they were generally labelled 'St Michael from Marks and Spencer'.
 
btw I've seen quite a few coloured laundry symbols on labels in my time - surely they can't all have all been for/from Canada? - I had thought it was a 70s thing. I didn't realise it was a traffic light system though!

M&S may have labelled clothes for both domestic and int markets. I've seen that CA number a lot too .
 
Leonardo Da Vintage said:
I'll see if I can add to Jonathans info, but it won't be before tomorrow. Happy to send you that doc Melanie, message me your email address. I also have several books on M&S.

Gayle the St Michael label was used until 2000 as the M&S house brand. In the 90s they were generally labelled 'St Michael from Marks and Spencer'.
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Thanks Ruth, I shall file that info away!!
 
CircaVintageClothing said:
Cute dresses, Melanie - I really like that first one.

I'll go early '70s on the first, and about '78-80 on the second.
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Thanks Nicole - me too! I would definetly be keeping them if they were my size... I can never have too many red dresses!

Jonathan said:
Now, the only question is why would they sell M&S merch for other markets in the UK?
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You know, it wasn't until I was sorting out those pics that I noticed the reg. no and I kinda dismissed it...

The second dress I purchased locally, so no idea why that should have a French label, only I didn't think it was uncommon, looking through the pictured labels of my vintage dresses right now most of the 70's onward have european and even US sizes on them. M&S have always been more concerned with size and fit than other brands so perhaps this is why foreign words appear on their labels alongside the normal sizes.
 
The St. Michael dressing gown with the great art nouveau print that I posted recently has a fairly similar label as the first dress, except that there's no care instructions:
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It has the same CA number too...

Because of the European size I thought that they may have been selling their clothes in France too.

Karin
 
Thank you all guys, the document Ruth sent me confirmed several aspects:
The first red dress must be post 1974 when 4 washing symbols replaced 2 (they don't mention the Canadian one, but I assume that must have arrived at the same time with the international label)
In the 1970s they introduced CA no.s (they don't say why, or on what but the indication is that it was everything) Made in UK begins to replace Made in Britain, and metric sizes appear.
The straight St Michael is also an indication of 1980s dating.

Excitingly, they also explain how some pieces can be dated to the month, using this code the 2nd red dress would be Oct 1971 or 81, it only has two wash symbols so this is where the guide in either confusing or contradictory. I'll go with the later date until I find otherwise.

P.S. Pauline, they mention use of an export logo in the 60's so I don't think french on the labels can be that clear cut in dating.

Karin I love that that label says 'remove before washing' and they never did!
 
Pinkcoke said:
P.S. Pauline, they mention use of an export logo in the 60's so I don't think french on the labels can be that clear cut in dating.
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The 1975 came from the time line page on the M&S web site personally i can rember seeing the first French lables for the first time but I no idea what year that would be.
 
That may be but I was wondering if the use of French was for the Quebec market, not the French, as they seem to have taken some trouble to get into Canada.
 
M&S expanded into Canada in 1973, and at one point had forty seven stores across Canada. Despite various efforts to improve its image, the chain was never able to move beyond its reputation there as a stodgy retailer, one that catered primarily to senior citizens and expatriate Britons. The shops in Canada were smaller than British outlets, and did not carry the same selection. In the late 1990s, further efforts were made to modernise them and also expand the customer base. Unprofitable locations were closed. Nonetheless, the Canadian operations continued to lose money, and the last 38 shops in Canada were closed in 1999.

"Canadian operations lose money," maybe they are selective with what history they write on there web site
 
I can tell you why they failed in Canada - it was obvious to anyone who remembers. M&S would locate in down-market suburban malls and up-play their Britishness with displays of Peak Frean cookies and Union Jack emblazoned tea tins in the front aisles. It was not inviting to anyone who wasn't British, and the store interior was out of the 1960s, with fluorescent lighting and lacklustre displays. The ONLY people who shopped there were granny ex-pats. The shop I remember in Don Mills was next to a Bargain Harold's, which was a Toronto dollar store, and if you are going to buy underpants and you are bargain hunter, chances are you are going to go to the shop with the $1.00 bargain bin than the one next door with the toffee tins in the window.
 
They have always struggled with the fuddy-duddy image I think.

That said, I just got the BEST PAIR OF JEANS I'VE EVER HAD from M&S. They've done a range cut for different body shapes. Finally jeans that fit my hips and my waist. I'm so happy I'm wearing them every day.
 
Melanie - yes, I thought that too! I admit I washed it as well and left the label in. It's kind of glued in, but it's not like it's coming off or the glue is looking bad or anything, so I just left it.

Interesting points about M&S' venture into Canada, about which I hadn't been aware so far. I can imagine that the Britishness which they so played up would do exactly nothing for them in Quebec... wrong strategy :).

Karin
 
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