Fancy collar and tie -- when was this picture taken?

[ecetlin]

Hi, I am working on writing my family history and have come across a lot of old pictures. One of them shows a couple that I am not yet able to recognize, yet the particular collar and tie seem quite unique of a certain time. Would it make sense for the attached picture to be from Russia or Poland at the turn of the past century? Anything else that can be inferred from the picture? I appreciate any and all feedback.

 

[MagsRags]

Welcome to the VFG forums!

Menswear changed more slowly and subtly than womenswear did. To me, your ancestor's collar looks like a detachable starched collar - this Wikipedia article gives a pretty good overview. They came in a variety of shapes. Most were washable and heavily starched, but I have seen disposable ones as well.

If you browse through our Wedding Resource and enlarge the photos that include grooms over the decades, you will see a lot of men in stiff starched collars. The necktie was most often a bow tie for formal occasions like a wedding, but not always.

 

[ecetlin]

Welcome to the VFG forums!

Menswear changed more slowly and subtly than womenswear did. To me, your ancestor's collar looks like a detachable starched collar - this Wikipedia article gives a pretty good overview. They came in a variety of shapes. Most were washable and heavily starched, but I have seen disposable ones as well.

If you browse through our Wedding Resource and enlarge the photos that include grooms over the decades, you will see a lot of men in stiff starched collars. The necktie was most often a bow tie for formal occasions like a wedding, but not always.

thank you. very interesting.

 

[Jonathan]

Separate starched collars pretty much disappear for everything but evening wear by the 1930s. Younger men prefer soft, attached collars in the 1920s, but they are still being made into the 1920s for older and more conservative men who had worn separate, starched collars all their life. So I would suggest 1920s, not later than 1930.

 

[MagsRags]

I would suggest 1920s, not later than 1930

But not earlier than 1920?

 

[ecetlin]

Indeed... could it be from 1890 or 1900?

 

[ecetlin]

And any sense of location?

 

[morning-glorious]

I don't think it could have been from 1890 or 1900, the style of the lapels on his jacket seem more like the 1920s fashions to me. Also it's a casual photo taken in a home, with what looks like a bed in the background and a painting on the wall, and he is smoking a cigarette. This isn't a formal studio portrait the smoking suggests it's taken with a camera capable of fairly fast shutter speeds. I think 1920s. I am a little confused by her clothing, compared to his it looks very casual/every day wear. Maybe there are clues to location in her brooch. Great photo!

 

[ecetlin]

I so appreciate these reflections and had not noticed the cigarette. I was also puzzled by her clothing compared to his, and love the suggestion on the brooch. Any such experts here?

 

[retro ruth]

Could her garment be a coat? And she has something more formal underneath.

FWIW a Russian friend told me that fashion changed very slowly behind the Iron Curtain. Not sure how accurate that is.

 

[Jonathan]

But not earlier than 1920?

It could be, but not much earlier - definitely not before 1914

 

[LuxLegacy]

Great photo!
I also think the brooch may offer some clues. A crescent moon is used by many countries in flags. I wonder if the center is a flower? A flag?

I would agree that fashion lags greatly in Eastern European countries. Even today, in rural areas of Bulgaria, Czech, rural Hungary, ie women clothing is very utilitarian. People still travel in cart and mule.

The woman does appears to wear a coat. Perhaps send this photograph to museums in your ancestors countries? Someone may be able to assist.

Good luck! Keep us up to date on your journey?

 

[LuxLegacy]

A quick search on Pinterest...
What a fun project.