18th century satin silk frock coat?

Ivan Jacquard

Ivan Jacquard

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Hi everyone! I recently found this beautiful satin silk jacket, it’s my first find that is older than 20th century so i need some help. It’s Swiss made, didn’t find any info on the maker, but the street (5 Rue des Allemands) was renamed in 1914, so it’s definitely older than that. It’s hand stitched and has a design resembling men’s frock coats from late 18th century, but the button fastening is on the women’s side and size is too small to be adult men’s, so I’m guessing it’s either women’s or girl’s coat. Anyways I’m not sure as I’m not very educated on this era of fashion and would like to hear an opinion of someone with better knowledge, any info is appreciated. Thank you for reading and have a nice day!
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This is not my area of expertise age-wise, but a few things spring to mind. The inside waistband, called a waist stay, is something typical for women's garments - usually dresses as far as I know. The band with the name woven into it looks to me newer than 18th century. Also, it looks like it has boning? My first thought is that this is some kind of costume for a woman. Also the back doesn't look like a frock coat would look like - it's kind of draped like it would possibly go over a skirt? Even if this were a costume for a woman playing/dressed as a man, I would expect the back to look more like a real frock coat, without any draping.
The name on the ribbon is Favre-Quiry, right? It is a little hard to see. What does its say before the name - I can't see that at all? I searched the digitised version of the Swiss trade register's print publication that goes back to 1883, but couldn't find anything for Favre-Quiry. A search with the street address shows that a few different businesses and shops seem to have been at that address, one was dealing in sportswear and one seems to have been a hat shop, but nothing closer.
 
Midge said:
This is not my area of expertise age-wise, but a few things spring to mind. The inside waistband, called a waist stay, is something typical for women's garments - usually dresses as far as I know. The band with the name woven into it looks to me newer than 18th century. Also, it looks like it has boning? My first thought is that this is some kind of costume for a woman. Also the back doesn't look like a frock coat would look like - it's kind of draped like it would possibly go over a skirt? Even if this were a costume for a woman playing/dressed as a man, I would expect the back to look more like a real frock coat, without any draping.
The name on the ribbon is Favre-Quiry, right? It is a little hard to see. What does its say before the name - I can't see that at all? I searched the digitised version of the Swiss trade register's print publication that goes back to 1883, but couldn't find anything for Favre-Quiry. A search with the street address shows that a few different businesses and shops seem to have been at that address, one was dealing in sportswear and one seems to have been a hat shop, but nothing closer.
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Thank you so much for taking your time to do the research! That was also my thought that back with pleats and drapes is not typical for a frock coat, so it causes some confusion. You’re right, it’s Favre-Quiry, the letters are worn out, but as far as i can see it says Mme before the name (I suppose it may stand for… Madame?). I’m having a hard time connecting the dots, but thank you for helping me out!
 
You are welcome, Ivan. Yes, Mme stands for Madame. An internet search with the name doesn't help either. I just have to add: according to today's law, a single-person company doesn't have to register below a certain revenue threshold. Not sure what the law was back then, but I would just say, not finding her in the register from 1883 or later may just be that she didn't have to register, not because her business wasn't around anymore then.
 
Rue_de_la_Paix said:
It looks to be a woman's, from the Bustle era of 1870s or 1880s. Hard to pick a more exact date without seeing it on a dress form, but it is 1870s-1880s. It would have had a matching skirt.
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Thank you! That helps to narrow it down. Unfortunately there was no skirt…
 
Midge said:
You are welcome, Ivan. Yes, Mme stands for Madame. An internet search with the name doesn't help either. I just have to add: according to today's law, a single-person company doesn't have to register below a certain revenue threshold. Not sure what the law was back then, but I would just say, not finding her in the register from 1883 or later may just be that she didn't have to register, not because her business wasn't around anymore then.
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Interesting, this may be the reason there are no traces. I didn’t think about it in a jurisdictional sense.
 
To be honest, I didn't think about it first either and only saw that when I was trying to look up the history of the trade register. I live in Switzerland, and I did have a bit of company law and all that in business school, but that was ages ago and I've never had to think about this again. So I've learned something - again.
 
Midge said:
To be honest, I didn't think about it first either and only saw that when I was trying to look up the history of the trade register. I live in Switzerland, and I did have a bit of company law and all that in business school, but that was ages ago and I've never had to think about this again. So I've learned something - again.
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What connects school subjects is that you never know when you might need them.
Check what Lynne found! There in fact is some documentation
 
lkranieri said:
I searched the internet for Favre-Quiry and found this entry in what is, apparently, an 1871 publication that seems to list Swiss businesses, but Karin can help you with translation. I gather tailleuse is 'tailor' (feminine form?) and I believe schneiderin is the feminine form of dressmaker/seamstress.

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Thank you Lynne! It was probably quite difficult to find, I appreciate it. Now I’m starting to see the bigger picture.
 
Lynne @lkranieri - that is great. I've never seen the word "tailleuse" being before, only the male for tailleur, but it makes sense. Both tailleuse and Schneiderin mean seamstress or dressmaker.
This seems to be a general register of businesses in Switzerland, and according to the preface, was first published in 1871 - because general information for businesses in the whole of Switzerland had been missing previously. Each canton would have had it's own trade register and information was held at the local registers. So a need for a nationwide trade publication had been felt, of course also due to trade relations becoming more international. Swiss cantons had been operating like relatively independent states before 1848 and even within the newly formed Swiss state, many authorities remained at that level (and they still do). The copy of this publication is at the university library in Lucerne, and it looks like it was a precursor to the one that I was looking at, which the ETH library in Zurich has, and which only starts from 1883.
 
Midge said:
:cheer:
I just had a good giggle at one of the ads in that book... and couldn't help looking up my hometown. Found two businesses that are still around under the same name!
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Karin, I found the additional attached 1862 Favre-Quiry reference you can see here, but I assume it is not for Marie Favre-Quiry. Can you help with some translating...such as what is Coutiers? May I assume "representants de commerce" is something like an agent for a business? And I assume the "Favre-Quiry, Fr." stands for some first name like Francois or Frederick? I wonder if that was Marie's husband, as Favre-Quiry seems to be a name that does not seem to appear frequently anywhere...

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@lkranieri Sorry for not responding earlier. It's been a crazy week, I have been away on business plus we had our work Christmas party... :exhausted:

No idea what Fr. might stand for, though François is probably the most obviuos. Représantant de commerce would be something like representative for trade/business I guess. Couldn't find a translation for coutier, that must be an old word! But cout means cost, so I think it goes in the same direction.
 
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