antique cheongsam?

fanciness

fanciness

Registered Guest
I believe what I have is an antique silk and brocade cheongsam. The silk has an interesting 'texture' that I've not seen before. The sleeves are slightly bell shaped and each side of the skirt has a slit at the bottom hem. It is fully lined but I'm unsure of the material (lining can be seen in the third photo). I'm unsure of the era but based on the closures and length I don't believe it's any later than 1930s. I had a master seamstress take a look at it and she said it was completely hand-sewn. Any information about the era and material would be greatly appeciated! I can provide more detailed photos if necessary.

(I should also add that in trying to reactivate my account, I think I accidentally signed up on the trade member site instead. Sorry about that).
cheongsam1.jpg
cheongsam2.jpg
cheongsam3.jpg
 
This is not really my area of expertise, but it is a subject that interests me, and I did a bit of reading about Chinese fashions this past year. Is the sleeve separate from the body of the dress? Are there any darts defining the bust? The lining looks like a knit in your photo which would be "strange."

From what I know about cheongsam or qi pao (as they were called in Shanghai) they were one piece - the sleeves were not set in or separate, and there were no bust darts until the 1950's. Originally these garments fastened with knotted buttons but I just read that zippers were used in the 1930's, so the snaps seem correct.

Hopefully some other people will have some information to add to this.

It's lovely and thank you for sharing it with us!

Linn
 
Hi,

This is also not my area of expertise, but I do not think of this as a cheongsam, at least not the ones I have seen or worn in the past. This looks like it was worn with pants underneath, or leg wrappings. It has a different cut and look to it than other cheongsams I have seen. Perhaps they came in a variety of styles? The lining looks right to me, looks like a raw silk.... (Linn I think you are seeing the dress form's covering fabric).

The age looks pre 1940's, maybe as old as 1920s, judging strictly by the fabric and trim.

Again, not my area, but this is lovely.
 
Thank you so much for your responses. To answer your questions Linn, there are no bust darts, however the sleeves do seem to have been attached separately. I think the lining is appearing to be knit due to my photos. There is quite a bit more 'sheen' to the fabric in person than appears in the ones above. Raw silk sounds about right. I've attached a few photos of the garment inside out to possibly offer more clues.

Interesting about the pants, Barbara. Any idea what it may be called?

cheongsam4.jpg
 
This is not my area of expertise, but I wanted to mention that kimonos are usually hand sewn too, so the sewing is not necessarily an indication of age. My question is can you tell what the trim is made of? Is machine or hand embroidery or a woven design?
 
Haha, I just realised that we all started off the same way! Asian clothing is it's on area of specialisation and as you can see, those of us in the Western World don't get to deal with it that much.
 
(Linn I think you are seeing the dress form's covering fabric).
Click to expand...

Of, course! :BAGUSE:

The cheongsam/qi pao or qipao became more form fitting in the late 1920's - 1930's. It evolved from the traditional Manchu robes. I'm not sure if it's older than 1930's because of the snaps, and I don't think this style would have been worn with pants. I do think it's a qipao or cheongsam.

Linn
 
I'm not sure what the trim is made of- the best I can do is post a photo and hope someone with more textile knowledge can tell what it is! Here's a close up...hope this helps.
cheongsam5.jpg
 
It looks like an early (prewar) Cheongsam to me. The garment is a blend of Chinese traditional costume with Western styling, so the snaps don't bother me. The postwar ones tend to be more similar, with frogging, and using brocade satins etc. but I think this one is prewar and that is when the style was being defined (1920s-30s) - here are some pics of similar ones: http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=...=en&client=safari&sa=N&rls=en&tbm=isch&itbs=1
 
Oh, thank you for that information and photo, that helps tremendously. Would you say this is a particularly rare piece? I wasn't able to find a similar one for sale anywhere.

Here is a photo of the garment inside out, Linn... you can see where the ends of the sleeves were attached. The material and color is different. One arm also has a separate patch above the seam, which may be a repair (although it's not visible from the outside. It looks completely uniform when viewed from right-side-out).

cheongsam4.jpg
 
qipao.jpg


This is the cut of a traditional qipao.

Cheongsam is the name used in Hong Kong for the more fitted garments. In China they were called qi pao or qipao which is derived from the Manchu word for long gown. Until the Nationalist era long gowns were worn by men, and women wore shorter jackets in this shape with pants - or if they were Han, open jackets with long skirts.

As Jonathan mentioned this style was defined in the 1920's and 1930's and is synonymous with Shanghai during that period. The garments became more and more fitted in the 1930's. Originally they closed with knotted buttons or frogging, but zippers were used in the 1930's - and snaps! They were made of various fabrics including brocades but also in "every day" materials because they were worn every day. There are some stunning examples in "Shanghai Girl Gets All Dressed Up" by Beverley Jackson.

I agree with Jonathan that the example shown by Fanciness is a combination of Chinese and Western styles - and could well be pre-War. Some women in China wore Western style clothing early on - and there were even some Chinese "flappers."

According to Antonioa Finnane, "Changing Clothes in China," bust darts date in "Cheongsams" from the 1950's.

Linn
 
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Thank you for that wonderful information, Linn. I'll definitely look for the book you mentioned. So would it be safe to say that what I have is a prewar (likely c. 1920s or early 1930s) silk cheongsam or qipao?
 
Is there a seam at the shoulder where the sleeve attaches? I can't see it in your photos. Could you show the inside of that part or a close up of the seam? If there is a shoulder seam and the sleeve is attached separately I think you could say that your garment appears to be C. 1930's and is a silk cheongsam or qipao that has Western influences.

Linn
 
The photo above (in reply #12) shows the sleeve inside out... it doesn't appear to attach at the shoulder but about halfway down the sleeve.
 
Hi Fanciness-

I wondered if there is a seam at the shoulder, that attached the sleeve to the body of the garment but it looks like there is not. If you lay it out flat is it the same shape as the one in the image I showed? If so, it is a cheongsam or qipao and you don't have to include the Western influence part because snaps and zippers were being used pre-WWII in Shanghai (and probably in H.K., too.)

I cannot comment on it's rarity. Chinese costume is an area that interests me, but I am not an expert.

Linn
 
Ah, I see what you're saying now. When I lay it out, it does look like the photo you posted with the sleeves being a bit longer and more narrow, but quite the same shape elsewhere.

Thank you all very much for taking the time to help me out with this one! I have a kimono I acquired from the same estate as this so i may be back to see if it's from the same time period, as kimonos are difficult for me to date as well. Thanks again! :)
 
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