Are these dresses considered couture??

thevintagebungalow

thevintagebungalow

VFG Member
Hello all!
I've been busy busy busy photographing and uploading pictures so I can begin listing. I have lots of questions, here are the first....

I have two dresses by Bernham Originals New York. I have seen a dress with same label referred to as Couture. Can I use this term in my listing. I know the term couture is used more liberally than it probably should be so I want to be sure.
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This dress is by Peggy Hunt (yea!) and I've also heard her creations referred to as couture.
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Also, I'm thinking mid to late 50's on all?? I appreciate your help on these!
Carrie
 
Hi Carrie,

I dont believe that these dresses are couture, even though some sellers may refer to them as such. Some people would also say the same about Ceil Chapman. I am sure that they may have qualities that are couture like, but strictly speaking, I dont think so.

I think they will do quite well on their own merit. The Peggy Hunt I'm sure is collected and that one is a beauty, and great for the season. I dont know much about the other label, but it looks grand as well. Thats my thinking anyway, but see what others may say.
 
lmy yardstick is if it says couture on the label, (l have some Peggy French of my own that do) then l use it, if not l dont as lm not lawyas sure what was a couture line and what was 'off the peg' so to speak, but l know people do use the term loosley and it is misleading.

l think tht edates are about right, save for the top one that l would say is acusp dresss 1948-52 approx..


btw....any one of these larger size?? l love the two black ones? l'm a uk 14-16..are you listing them soon!

HTH
 
In the strictest terminology Couture means custom made.
Since the 1950s however, its terminology has become looser and applied to everything from home made dresses to designer dresses. I would call your dresses designer dresses, not couture as they were both off the rack garments but a lot of people now equate a designer name with couture. I think is partly the fault of designers that were in the business of couture and went into pret-a-porter as a means of making more money, like Dior, Balmain, Fath, Chanel etc. Most American designers never did couture but went straight to designing lines for manufacturers, although Hattie Carnegie, Sophie Gimbel and Adrian are three who did do couture.
 
Johnathan is right. Couture used to mean custom.
As opposed to ready made.
The term is used much more loosely today.
Although I don't call dresses couture often I do describe them as having couture details. If it has beautiful hand finishing or hand worked embellishment, say. Adele Simpson for example, made dresses so beautifully they deserve that distinction. The Peggy Hunt dress has a lovely bodice detail. If it is hand applied I would call it a couture detail.
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Melody
 
This begs a question I have.... I bought a lot from a designer's estate, most of which are labeled and are off-the-rack. However, some of these dresses were custom made for the designer by her own dressmakers, or were "spec" pieces that never were put into production. She also designed for the movies, and I have one or two pieces that I think may have been designed for, if not worn by, actresses.

Would any of these be considered "couture" pieces, even sans labels? The custom-made ones (her own apparel) are of exquisite upscale quality in fabric & workmanship.

If couture means "custom made by a designer" then these qualify. But if the piece has to have the designer's label on it, then most of the custom ones don't.

Any additional insight is greatly appreciated! Thanks!
 
I would call those first items prototypes for manufacture Couture technically has to be made for someone in particular. A dressmaker dress made for a client is couture. Although if it was made for a film then it kind of gets classed as theatrical costume or wardrobe rather than couture, even though it technically is made to order and could be classified as couture. To me the difference between dressmaker and couture is quality -- French couture finishing is sometimes used by dressmakers -- in fact Victorian dresses made by American dressmakers are often the same quality of construction and finishing as French dresses of the same time. The French just had the fancy name couturier rather than dressmaker. Modern dressmakers however tend to put in zippers by machine, leave selvege edges and cut edges raw on the inside and don't weight hems etc. -- all tell tale signs of French couture quality. Haute couture is strictly Parisian couture however and is even trademarked as such -- it can't be used interchangebly with dressmaker.
 
Thank you Jonathan; that helps! Much of the work done on the designer's own dresses was done by hand, and meticulously. And the fabrics in them are wonderful--her silks are the nicest quality I have ever seen in any dresses. That's one of the problems I have in selling her stuff--while the styles are not necessarily outrageously outstanding, the quality of both the workmanship and the hand of the fabrics are simply fabulous--but those are hard to show in pictures....
 
This is a good topic for the VFG to introduce as a feature actually... Defining the terms of Haute Couture, couture, dressmaker, home made, designer, pret aporter, boutique etc.
 
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