Baffled by Dress - Vintage HorseHair Trim Evening Dress Help

DaisyandStella

DaisyandStella

VFG Member
Hi all,
I have a vintage evening dress that i'm a little baffled by.
It has a crepe-back satin under dress reminiscent of the late 1930s with a side metal zipper.
Over top of that is a taffeta over dress also with a side metal zipper.
There is a horsehair? trimmed web design that covers the entire dress with prong-set rhinestone accents.
There are no labels.
I know that metal zippers didn't appear until the late 1930s and it was still rare for a 30s dress to have a metal zipper. I am curious as to what everyone thinks for dating on this. Also, I would like to try to hand wash as the taffeta over layer has some very faint pink markings, but i'm afraid to ruin the dress.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated on dating and cleaning.
Thanks much!
 

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poppysvintageclothing said:
Beautiful gown. Not sure about it being horsehair trim. I am seeing early 40s.

Have you tried to spot clean the faint pink markings?

Bumping this up for you to see what others have to say.
Click to expand...
Thank you! Any idea on what that trim is or what to call it? I've never seen it before on a dress.
I've haven't tried spot cleaning - would you recommend spot cleaning with hydrogen peroxide & water combo?
 
Honestly, I have never tried the hydrogen peroxide & water combo, so I could not say...but if you dab a little of that with just a q-tip in one tiny area, you should be able to see if there is any improvement.

As far as the trim goes, it reminds me of "soutache" but not sewn on simply soutache sewn together. There may well be another better term for this but that is what it reminds me of.
 
Where are the pink markings and do you know what caused the markings? I have only used hydrogen peroxide on cotton, which does work to lighten stains but often will lighten the fabric as well. I would probably start with distilled water using a Q-tip in a inconspicuous area and lightly blot to see if any of the spot is removed. Water spot treatment can lead to water marks.
 
PersonalPursuits said:
Where are the pink markings and do you know what caused the markings? I have only used hydrogen peroxide on cotton, which does work to lighten stains but often will lighten the fabric as well. I would probably start with distilled water using a Q-tip in a inconspicuous area and lightly blot to see if any of the spot is removed. Water spot treatment can lead to water marks.
Click to expand...
Hi Maxine - the pink markings are on the outer taffeta skirt - near waistline and in a few other spots. They aren't super noticeable but i think this gown is pretty special so am hoping to get in as good condition as possible. I'll try the distilled water first and see how that goes. Thanks everyone for your input!
 
I think this gorgeous gown is late 1930's. I own a late 1930's gown and jacket. The jacket has this zipper. My gown zips up the side. I have seen this zipper a number of times in 1930's pieces - not to say it couldn't have been used later but the lines of the sleeves and the over-lace and rhinestone trim looks more '30's to me than '40's - but I could be wrong.

I would try a "dab" of Folex on the spot in the most inconspicuous place possible. It's really a lovely piece!

Linn
 
That is an unusual gown, I find it to be very interesting. It almost seems experimental. The "tape" or braid used for the dress looks to be the very same material used in millinery, often referred to as millinery crin or horsehair braid, or simply HH. I have seen it used in 1930s to 1960s clothing for under linings and support for draping, etc., or for hem tape to keep the hem line in shape. Charles James loved it, but I'll bet he used the real thing. I have never seen an entire dress made of this stuff. Even though it has not been made of actual horse hair for decades (but can still be obtained in real HH for special orders and couture), many in the millinery arena still refer to it as HH. Since all millinery HH used for the past 80 or 80 years is artificial, I prefer to call it what is is...synthetic HH or artificial HH. It could be made of a variety of petroleum based synthetics such as nylon, plastic, blends, etc.

Can you show a close up of the stuff? I cannot be sure that is what it is from the photos.
 
Fabulous gown Brooke - well done! It's an interesting style and a tricky one to date. My first feeling was late '40s but it could be earlier. My question for you is what is the crin/HH made of? Can you perhaps do a little burn test? If it's nylon then it's unlikely to be earlier than late '40s.

I recommend dry cleaning for taffeta so would try spot cleaning the marks first as dry cleaning is unlikely to get them out.
 
Rue_de_la_Paix said:
That is an unusual gown, I find it to be very interesting. It almost seems experimental. The "tape" or braid used for the dress looks to be the very same material used in millinery, often referred to as millinery crin or horsehair braid, or simply HH. I have seen it used in 1930s to 1960s clothing for under linings and support for draping, etc., or for hem tape to keep the hem line in shape. Charles James loved it, but I'll bet he used the real thing. I have never seen an entire dress made of this stuff. Even though it has not been made of actual horse hair for decades (but can still be obtained in real HH for special orders and couture), many in the millinery arena still refer to it as HH. Since all millinery HH used for the past 80 or 80 years is artificial, I prefer to call it what is is...synthetic HH or artificial HH. It could be made of a variety of petroleum based synthetics such as nylon, plastic, blends, etc.

Can you show a close up of the stuff? I cannot be sure that is what it is from the photos.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info Bonnie! It's definitely artificial or synthetic and has a plastic-like texture. I'll see if I can get a good close-up to post soon.
 
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