Dating and origin help for war-era ski jacket with German Zipp zipper

[Public Dove]

Hi Everyone! This is my first post. My name is Carly and I've been selling vintage for 10 years, wearing it for 20+. Nice to meet you!

My question is regarding what I believe to be a later 1930s women's ski jacket. I found it in the menswear section of a vintage shop, but it is obviously tailored for a woman.

Here are the details:

-A tweed-like wool vest with wool knit sleeves, collar and pockets.
-The metal zipper is a German "Zipp" brand with the inscription of "DRP (Deutscher ReichsPatent) Nürnberg".
-Crepe partial lining, unfinished seams, no label.

My questions are:

-Are my suspicions correct in thinking this a a late 30s early 40s piece?
-Does anyone know more about "Zipp" brand zippers? I came across a blog that suggested that Zipp factories were cited during the war for using forced labor. Any info on the DRP Nürnberg patent?
-As a reseller, provenance and ethics come before everything. If this does have origins in forced labor, does anyone know an ethical way to handle this piece? Any museums who may accept it?

I appreciate any and all advice!

 

[MagsRags]

Welcome to the VFG, Public Dove!

It's a great jacket, and I agree that it is clearly made for a woman. I think your dating is about right, although it doesn't look insulated enough for a ski jacket.

Your question about the ethics of re-selling something that may have been made using forced labor is an interesting one, and a museum donation could certainly be something to consider. Where are you located?

 

[Public Dove]

Welcome to the VFG, Public Dove!

It's a great jacket, and I agree that it is clearly made for a woman. I think your dating is about right, although it doesn't look insulated enough for a ski jacket.

Your question about the ethics of re-selling something that may have been made using forced labor is an interesting one, and a museum donation could certainly be something to consider. Where are you located?

Thanks, Maggie!

I am located in Cleveland, Ohio.

 

[Jonathan]

I think its's more likely postwar, If it were prewar I would expect the cuffs to be knitted, and the tweedy fabric is more postwar in feeling too. The waist is very nipped in too, and for the 30s/40s, ski outfits are usually belted in at the waist and a bit more blouson in style. Here is a German fashion image of ski clothes from 1943:

The two outfits in the back have similar looking jackets to yours, but they are also broader along the shoulder line. If it was 30s I would expect a more puffed and fuller sleeve.

 

[retro ruth]

If it were prewar I would expect the cuffs to be knitted

It's a little hard to tell because it's so dark, but it looks to me like the entire sleeve is knitted, and the collar, and the pocket 'tops'. If I'm right, they are knitted with flecked wool for a tweedy effect. The pockets and collar look like garter stitch, and the sleeve stocking stitch with garter stitch at the cuff.

I need a more close-up pic to be sure though.

 

[Public Dove]

I think its's more likely postwar, If it were prewar I would expect the cuffs to be knitted, and the tweedy fabric is more postwar in feeling too. The waist is very nipped in too, and for the 30s/40s, ski outfits are usually belted in at the waist and a bit more blouson in style. Here is a German fashion image of ski clothes from 1943:
View attachment 177219
The two outfits in the back have similar looking jackets to yours, but they are also broader along the shoulder line. If it was 30s I would expect a more puffed and fuller sleeve.

Thanks for your thorough response, Jonathan! The ad helps, and I do agree that the sleeves appear too streamlined to be 30s. I should mention there are light shoulder pads, and the sleeves, collar and pocket tops are knitted wool. It is giving more of a 40s vibe overall.

I guess my conundrum will be which part of the 40s. If it is indeed under the occupation, then the zipper would have been manufactured under forced labor.

I appreciate your insights!

 

[Public Dove]

It's a little hard to tell because it's so dark, but it looks to me like the entire sleeve is knitted, and the collar, and the pocket 'tops'. If I'm right, they are knitted with flecked wool for a tweedy effect. The pockets and collar look like garter stitch, and the sleeve stocking stitch with garter stitch at the cuff.

I need a more close-up pic to be sure though.

Thanks, Ruth! You are correct - the entire sleeve, pocket-tops and collar are knitted wool with flecks. There is a different knit pattern on the sleeve vs the cuff and trimmings. I have attached more images

 

[Public Dove]

From what I have gathered about German patents and from everyone's help, the jacket appears to be 1943-45 ish. The patent marking on the back appears to have existed from 1887 - 1945. Which would land the zipper as being made under the German occupation with unethical labor practices, as its manufacturer was cited for after the war. (The Zipp patent was registered in 1932 and the German patent office website states its status as "file destroyed").

So my next question is how to best ethically handle this piece of history. I don't feel comfortable, knowing its provenance, to sell this jacket at a profit. Are there any fashion history museums or wwII museums that would consider the piece?

 

[Public Dove]

From what I have gathered about German patents and from everyone's help, the jacket appears to be 1943-45 ish. The patent marking on the back appears to have existed from 1887 - 1945. Which would land the zipper as being made under the German occupation with unethical labor practices, as its manufacturer was cited for after the war. (The Zipp patent was registered in 1932 and the German patent office website states its status as "file destroyed").

So my next question is how to best ethically handle this piece of history. I don't feel comfortable, knowing its provenance, to sell this jacket at a profit. Are there any fashion history museums or wwII museums that would consider the piece?

I forgot to mention I am in Cleveland, Ohio, but I am not opposed to sending it somewhere. Ideas welcomed!

 

[Jonathan]

I would certainly take it for the Fashion History Museum, but we are in Canada.

 

[Public Dove]

I would certainly take it for the Fashion History Museum, but we are in Canada.

That would be wonderful! I’m not opposed to sending it out of country, especially since it’s origins are not American anyway. Your museum is not too far from me, I hope to visit one day! Let me know how to best get in touch to coordinate the delivery. Thanks again for all your help!

 

[Jonathan]

Funnily enough, we plan on coming down to Cleveland in January or February. We are returning the Cher costumes to the collector in Columbus, and we also want to see Kent State museum in Akron, and the Western Reserve museum in Cleveland, as well as do a half dozen antique malls along the way... So if you aren't in a hurry we could pick it up when we are down there next year.
Jonathan

 

[Public Dove]

Funnily enough, we plan on coming down to Cleveland in January or February. We are returning the Cher costumes to the collector in Columbus, and we also want to see Kent State museum in Akron, and the Western Reserve museum in Cleveland, as well as do a half dozen antique malls along the way... So if you aren't in a hurry we could pick it up when we are down there next year.
Jonathan

That’s perfect! You probably saw this, but the Western Reserve has a great exhibit through June about eveningwear’s response to electric lighting called Fashion After Dark. I plan to see it sometime.

I will reach out to you via your website so we can plan to meet and exchange the jacket. Thanks again for all your help!

 

[Public Dove]

Funnily enough, we plan on coming down to Cleveland in January or February. We are returning the Cher costumes to the collector in Columbus, and we also want to see Kent State museum in Akron, and the Western Reserve museum in Cleveland, as well as do a half dozen antique malls along the way... So if you aren't in a hurry we could pick it up when we are down there next year.
Jonathan

Happy New Year, Johnathan! I sent a follow up email to the museum contact page to coordinate donation of the jacket once your plans are firmed up this year. Thanks -Carly