Deperately seeking advice about loaning out vintage for publicity

chanellabelle

chanellabelle

Registered Guest
Hi everyone,

I was contacted a week ago by a fashion stylist who needed to do a fotoshoot for a magazine.

She asked if she could loan some items from my shop in return for publicity. Now I've had this asked before and then they would rent items instead of loaning them. But because this magazine would be good publicity for my shop, I decided I could loan her the items and set up some conditions.

So we agreed that if she couldn't/ didn't want to rent them she would have to guarantee this publicity and pay a percentage of the total amount due for insurance. I would refund this as soon as the the edition came out and proof of print was delivered. Of course the items would also have to be returned undamaged. If proof of print could not be delivered the insurance fee would be kept as rent payment for these items.

She went ahead and loaned the items and was supposed to return them within a week after receiving them. First thing that bothered me was that she was 3 days late returning the items and she didn't give me any notice. But that's not really a deal breaker as far as I was concerned.
But now she's demanding that I refund the insurance fee immediately (before the proof of print is delivered), because that will not be until May next year. She said she didn't realize exactly what she agreed to because she is not used to this policy. And that she always gets her refund as soon as she has returned the items undamaged.

Does anyone have any advice about how to deal with this lady? :help:
 
It looks as though you've taken great care to protect yourself with terms and conditions that both parties have agreed to. If they made the agreement, they should honor it. Otherwise, you would be due the rental fee.
 
Thanks so much for replying, Crazybubba!
Indeed I have taken great care to protect my interest and she agreed to these conditions.
But now she is saying that this is not normal policy, she isn't used to this and that she didn't understand what she agreed to.:icon_wall:
She says the magazine doesn't have a budget for renting clothing and that she needs the money for Christmas.
I explained that the only other option is to pay the rental fee. She doesn't want to listen to that, instead she proposed to loan more items for her next assignment to gain even more publicity for my shop. Oooh my....
I think I'll just have to keep my foot down if she doesn't want to pay the rental fee...
 
I would be inclined to return half or 3/4 of the money to show good faith in a working relationship, however, if you don't have anything in writing you may want to return all of it, because your agreement is unusual and she could turn it around and make you look like you are trying to get both paid and publicity.
 
I think it depends on whether you want to work with them again or not. You want to stick to your guns, but you also don't want to be known as that lady who is difficult to work with.

What kind of insurance policy did you buy for the garments, or was it more of a security deposit that would be deducted from if she had damaged them? I would carefully inspect the items, and if the garments have been returned to you in the same condition you sent them out, and then do as Jonathan said - return the money. If there is damage (and real damage, not just a loose snap, but tears, etc, and make the garment unsaleable for the original price), then bring it to her attention and deduct the repairs.

The other idea if you are concerned about the garments would be to offer to be at the shoot, bring the selected garments with you and help dress the models/style the clothing. But that might be overreaching if that wasn't part of the original agreement.
 
Hey everyone,

Thanks for all the replies!

The agreement was made in writing and for reasons both Jonathan and Patentleathershoes mentioned, I opened a topic on the forum.
It felt really terrible keeping my foot down like that, cause I don't want to be difficult and I also don't want her to think that I want to have free publicity AND get paid at the same time.

She also mentioned today that of the 6 items she borrowed, she only used 2 and that it's not up to her if these items get featured by the magazine. She now also brought it to my attention that she works freelance and doesn't have a say in this. Which got me a little ticked off because that's not how she made it seem in the first place. She said that she could guarantee the publicity and now there's a whole different story to it. However, this shouldn't really matter much, cause I covered this in the agreement. I even asked her before signing, if she was absolutely sure that she didn't want to rent them, because the agreement states that if she doesn't hold her end of the bargain she has to pay a rental fee.
She went ahead and borrowed them anyway. She could've at least negotiated the terms. I asked her if she wanted to change the agreement and pay a rental fee for them instead. But she insisted that she wants all of it back immediately.

This is the first time I've ever loaned anything out, instead of renting it out. I think I may just have to return all of it and learn a good lesson from this. That maybe I should just stick to renting and never loan it out again?:(

ps. Please excuse any grammar or spelling mistakes, I don't normally speak English :)
 
I think you're right - in your shoes I'd return the money and apologise for the confusion. As she said, she can't control what is finally printed and May is a while to drag this on. As Patentleathershoes mentioned, you don't want any bad will from this.

I used to lend things out for shoots and experienced similar problems - now we only hire but under certain circumstances, those hire fees are negotiable. Amazing, I find that problems don't seem to happen any more, it's an advantage of being professional.

When I was a private collector, I could lend things out but now as a business, people generally understand that I need to charge for my goods and services.

Good luck with it: I'm sorry that this is causing so much grief but it is a good opportunity to think about your policies and how you'd like to do things.

Nicole
 
I'm inclined to disagree somewhat. If she signed a contract with you to use your items and recieve the deposit back after proof of publicity, then why return the full amount without what was promised you. It seems from what you say that there may be no publicity for you in the end anyway; that she has no control over whether or not you get mentioned or not for the dresses. Contracts like the one you drew up and that she agreed to keep people from taking advantage of each other, which seems like the case here. If it were me I would go over the contract with her, and agree in this case to refund her a portion of it and keep what would be equal to a rental fee until the promise of publicy is honored. I don't think you should feel sorry that she didn't read and understand what she signed. If the contract is clear then she likely knows exactly what it meant and now that she's done with your clothing she wants to back out of the contract. Also, if she gauranteed publicity to you when she knew that she really could not gaurantee anything and now wants the $ back for the clothing without paying a rental fee I think that is quite unprofessional of her and do you really want to be involved with another of her photoshoots anyway?
 
Hi everyone,

I forgot to mention earlier that I also offered to return 50% now and the other 50% when proof of print was provided to me.

I'm on a different time zone, so at the moment it's almost 10 o' clock in the morning here.
Just received an email from her, which was very disturbing and upsetting. I woke up thinking that I would just tell her that I'd return the full amount to put an end to this little drama. This email is quite unbelievable....

--It basically says that she went over the conditions on my website and that if she had purchased the items like a normal customer would, she would have been able to return them within 7 days after received and get all of her money back. She's been so honest to tell me that she was going to use it for a photoshoot. Now it's feels like she's being punished for her honesty. And that I seem to have forgotten that my shop would even get free publicity if the items are going to be featured in the magazine. Then she goes on by saying that the law permits her to return online purchases within a certain period of time and that she has done so.
So she wants me to stop being so unreasonable and difficult, she expects the full refund amount to be transfered her bank account asap.--

I'm so shocked by her attitude! I will most definitely not do business with this lady again, she doesn't seem to be able to grasp the concept of it!
 
Since your agreement is in writing and you offered to cooperate by returning 50% of the money until the advert shows up, you have tried to work with her and she is being unreasonable. I would now tell her that you will be charging for every communication received from her until a copy of the advertisment is provided (my lawyer charges me $30.00 per email). If she wants to keep harrassing you, despite your agreement, it will be deducted from her refund and until your credit appears in the advertisement no money will be refunded per your written agreement.

Also, keep all emails from her. She has clearly stated her ethics if she thinks its okay to buy something, use it, and return it for a full refund. A judge wouldn't look at that statement favourably.
 
Well, if she is a freelancer and not an employee of the magazine, it seems she, either intentionally or mistakenly, misled you right from the outset. Her relationship to the magazine should have been made clear. A freelancer generally has less influence with whomever is contracting for her work than would an employee. And certainly has far less input on future stories or publicity for you--with that publication or any other she does work for. I don't see how she could have made the guarantee to you in the first place. Stories get chopped down or cut out all the time.

So, yes, she paid the insurance fee out of her own pocket, but that doesn't mean she doesn't have to honor the agreement she made in writing. I'm with Jonathan--refund her the 50% now, then tell her when she can supply galley copies of the story before it goes to print, you'll refund the othe 50%. I don't see that you would have to wait until the mag is out on the racks, but she should be able to supply roughs of it a bit ahead of when it's going to publish. Not a whole lot ahead of time, but a little. For example, when someone is featured in a story, they often want review and correction rights, and the reporter or publication will send roughs. It's not as if she can't show you something before the piece is published.

Personally, I suspect this woman sought to "slightly" mislead you to begin with to get what she wanted, then figured she would claim she didn't "understand" what she was signing. Regardless of whether your agreement is typical for this type of arrangement, if it's in writing and signed by both parties (meaning both parties understood its terms), it's enforceable--she can't unilaterally change its terms.
 
Thanks everyone! This situation has been bugging me tremendously.
The strange thing is though, that if she's really read the terms, she would've understood that it only partly applies to our agreement, since it's not a purchase and derogatory arrangements have been made. (I had to look that one up to translate, lol)
The laws she's referring to also don't apply here, cause they only apply to purchases.
So this is what I replied her this morning. I couldn't help but mention that I don't feel that it's very professional of her to try and renegotiate the terms --after-- signing the agreement. I told her my offer to refund half now and half later still stands. And that if she didn't want to risk losing the money because she can't keep her end of the bargain, she could choose to pay the rental fee instead. I was too ticked off to refund all her money at once after this ridiculous email where she's ordering me to do it or else. But I haven't heard anything back from her so far.

I am definitely keeping all her emails, Jonathan! This must be the weirdest thing that ever happened to me so far.
Since I have no experience with loaning items out to stylist, I didn't realize that the way I was trying to protect my interest is so different from what is usually the case. I didn't do any research on the matter either; she needed the items within 2 days and just drew it up as I saw fit.

@Vintagebaubles From the the remarks she's making now, I can't help but feel the same. It's like she intentionally wanted to mislead me, because she needed the items. By introducing herself as a fashion stylist for the magazine and guaranteeing the publicity.
She was saying that a lady at the office (for the magazine) was wearing an owl necklace from my shop and she liked it so much, so she decided checked out my shop for their next shoot. I just assumed this "lady" was a colleague from the way she said it.
Maybe I'm just too naive for this type of stuff. :rolleyes:

I'll let you know how it all turns out...
 
I not to sure how relevant this point is , a fashion stylist or MUA might not own the copyright to the photos, that could be between the photographer and or the magazine/ customer.
That might explain why she not let you see any photos as she might not have a copy or the right to send any out to you . An over sight on her part maybe!.

Saying that she still entered into a contract and as it's in writing then you have a firm case.

Persoanlly I would try and find out why there is a delay first, maybe the magzine has changed minds about using the photos from either the magizine or photographer and she now know it and trying to get her money before you find out when it hit the shelves.
 
Hey Paul,
Thanks for replying, you made a good point.
I've even considered contacting the magazine to get more info about this.
She told me yesterday she had to dress several actors from a dutch soap for the photoshoot. So this was not a shoot with regular models.
Contacting them would seem like the best way to get to the bottom of it. I also suspect the publicity is not going to happen and that she knows this already.
I highly suspect that she knew she wouldn't be able to guarantee it from the get go, but really wanted the items anyway.
But I'd feel a bit weird and slightly unprofessional if I contact them because frankly... I have no business with the magazine... right?
 
Originally posted by chanellabelle

But I'd feel a bit weird and slightly unprofessional if I contact them because frankly... I have no business with the magazine... right?
Click to expand...

Maybe a friendly question to the magazine, "Are they going to use the photos as your were promised a set by the stylist, etc and your like to see them"
Might get the magazine thinking "what going on here with our photo shoot!.
 
Well it seems like there's finally come and end to all this. :)
She contacted me today and took me up and the offer to pay the rental fee and deduct it from the insurance amount that she'd already paid.
What was a bit annoying is that she asked if she could receive a credit voucher to purchase items in shop for the amount of the rental fee. I didn't agree to this because of her previous statement about purchasing something and then returning it afterwards to get her money back. So I was a bit suspicious about her intentions with the credit voucher.

I immediately refunded her money (minus the rental fee) and send her the invoice by mail. I also told her that she could deduct the fee when she has to fill in her tax forms for her company. So that's it, I guess.
I learned a valuable lesson from this: I'll stick to renting garments out!
Thanks for all your advice, everyone and happy holidays to you all!
 
There comes a point when it's best to sort it out and not let it drag on and on, so happy that seamed to be the case for you.
There is a lot to be said for cash.
 
It was a good thing this got settled before Christmas, because it would've bugged me the whole time!
I think that the majority of people that celebrate Christmas, don't even bother with the religious background of it nowadays, Jonathan! :rudolph:
And I did have that drink (...a few of them actually!) :fainting:
Thanks again everyone!
 
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