Hi! New registrant here. I'm hoping you can help with a question about a Christian Dior hat or, from my research, what is called a fascinator. The hat and several other items were left to me and my wife in a friend's will. One of these items is a hat that came in a G. Fox & Co. Department Store (Hartford, CT) hat box dating from the 1950s. The hat belonged to our friend's mother. In the hat box was a Christian Dior tag and the original price tag, both of which you can see in the photo I've provided. Inside the hat is a G. Fox & Co. label and a printed spider web-like mark that reads "Made in France." My question is did Christian Dior - The House of Dior do private label deals with department stores, making the hats in France, labeling the hat with the department store's private label, while providing a Christian Dior tag to indicate the hat is a Dior designed and made item? Is it a real Dior? Thank you for any
light you can shine on our little black hat mystery.
Dior and Department Stores
- Thread starter PeterDVO
- Start date
Hmm, not my area of expertise, but I'm sure you realise, the tag could have come from a different hat, and ended up with this hat somehow over the years.
given there’s nothing on the actual hat to indicate it’s by Dior, I don’t think you can be sure that there’s a connection between Dior and the hat, just by the hang tag being in the box.
It wasn’t unusual for department stores to add labels to clothing. But with clothing, they’d usually have a makers label as well.
if someone knows that Dior sold hats without labels but with hang tags, I guess it’s a possibility, but in my opinion still not something you can ever be sure of without some other evidence.
given there’s nothing on the actual hat to indicate it’s by Dior, I don’t think you can be sure that there’s a connection between Dior and the hat, just by the hang tag being in the box.
It wasn’t unusual for department stores to add labels to clothing. But with clothing, they’d usually have a makers label as well.
if someone knows that Dior sold hats without labels but with hang tags, I guess it’s a possibility, but in my opinion still not something you can ever be sure of without some other evidence.
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Thank you, Ruth. It does seem odd that there isn't a Dior label along with the G. Fox & Co. label in the hat. Or one label that says: Dior for G. Fox & Co., or something like that. Maybe someone else with knowledge of designer/retailer business relations of the 1950s might chime in. Thanks again, Ruth!
As Ruth said, it will be very hard to know for sure without any other documentation. But I did find a link between G.Fox & Co. Hartford and Dior HERE - I feel The Met is a reliable source. As well as this newspaper article I found that mentions a cross between the two by way of a coat that style blogger Garance Dore picked up. In any case it is a fabulous hat and a great piece of fashion history!
Rue_de_la_Paix
VFG Member
No, sorry, but Dior definitely did not make this hat. And the hat was not made in France. And the hang tag does not go with that hat. Sorry, its cute but there is no connection to Dior.
The hat may indeed be inspired by, or be a copy or an adaptation of a Paris milliner's hat. We have no way of knowing that unless you find an ad from G. Fox which states which Paris designer that exact hat was modeled after. But that means it is just that, only a style inspired by a hat that their buyer saw when in Paris .
And no, Dior did not have a relationship with department stores to make hats in France for the USA stores, and then have them sell them without a Dior label. Heaven forbid!
The hat is stamped inside "Made In France", but that does not indicate the hat was made in France, as it was not. What the stamp indicates is that the felt "body" or blank, was made in France and imported here to the USA where it was cut and molded to a desired style and then the store put in their label after the hat was completed.
The hang tag is from a different hat entirely. It was from the "Christian Dior Chapeau" line of hats, all of which were made here in the USA. A hat maker (likely one of 2 New York makers) , working under License from Dior, would make the hat here and put in the Dior "Chapeaux" label. So although some folks think these are real Dior couture hats, they are not. These hat and other Dior licensed accessories (like the tie at the METt) were sold in numerous US Department stores and would always have the name Dior somewhere on the label or woven into fabric. Also, the hat from which the hang tag DID come from would have had the Dior Chapeaux label inside, never just a hang tag alone.
It is a sweet little hat. Not a fascinator, though.
The hat may indeed be inspired by, or be a copy or an adaptation of a Paris milliner's hat. We have no way of knowing that unless you find an ad from G. Fox which states which Paris designer that exact hat was modeled after. But that means it is just that, only a style inspired by a hat that their buyer saw when in Paris .
And no, Dior did not have a relationship with department stores to make hats in France for the USA stores, and then have them sell them without a Dior label. Heaven forbid!
The hat is stamped inside "Made In France", but that does not indicate the hat was made in France, as it was not. What the stamp indicates is that the felt "body" or blank, was made in France and imported here to the USA where it was cut and molded to a desired style and then the store put in their label after the hat was completed.
The hang tag is from a different hat entirely. It was from the "Christian Dior Chapeau" line of hats, all of which were made here in the USA. A hat maker (likely one of 2 New York makers) , working under License from Dior, would make the hat here and put in the Dior "Chapeaux" label. So although some folks think these are real Dior couture hats, they are not. These hat and other Dior licensed accessories (like the tie at the METt) were sold in numerous US Department stores and would always have the name Dior somewhere on the label or woven into fabric. Also, the hat from which the hang tag DID come from would have had the Dior Chapeaux label inside, never just a hang tag alone.
It is a sweet little hat. Not a fascinator, though.
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Thank you, Lynne, for locating and posting the G. Fox & Co. ad. Now we know! Thanks again for your help!
Thank you, Barbara, for the excellent explanation of Dior's and other fashion houses' relations, or the lack thereof, with department stores and hatmakers that licensed designers' names. Now, I have to wonder whatever happened to the "Christian Dior Chapeau" chapeau my friend's mum owned. Thanks again for your help!
Rue_de_la_Paix
VFG Member
You are most welcome. Please be aware that Dior and other Couture fashion houses' relationships with USA and Canadian department stores is very complex , varied, and detailed. I was explaining only in reference to your hat.
Jonathan
VFG Member
Barbara - I recall reading somewhere that the Dior Chapeaux hats first appeared in 1963 - does that ring a bell with you? I have one Dior hat in the collection that was sold in a trunk sale in 1958, but otherwise, all the Dior hats in our collection are the 'chapeaux' line and date from the early/mid 60s
lkranieri
VFG Member
You can see here the earliest reference I found to "Christian Dior Chapeaux" from a 1958 blurb. I searched for some information about a label change to just "Dior Chapeaux" (if that is what your label says), but I found only "Christian Dior Chapeaux" references until 1986. I didn't find any just "Dior Chapeaux" references after that.
Jonathan
VFG Member
Yes, it was Christian Dior Chapeaux I was talking about. Thanks Lynne!