Fabric Question
- Thread starter sMarie
- Start date
Rue_de_la_Paix
VFG Member
Hi,
I think it is a roller print. Quite unusual. Can you show the reverse?... that will give clues.
The fabric is woven as in a homespun linen, with little slubs and nubs left in, or it could be a rayon bland, cotton linen, or even silk, but we cannot tell that from just a photo.
The pattern is reminiscent of India fabrics from the 18th century.
B
I think it is a roller print. Quite unusual. Can you show the reverse?... that will give clues.
The fabric is woven as in a homespun linen, with little slubs and nubs left in, or it could be a rayon bland, cotton linen, or even silk, but we cannot tell that from just a photo.
The pattern is reminiscent of India fabrics from the 18th century.
B
sMarie
Registered Guest
Thank you Barbara!
Here is a pic of the reverse:
The fabric almost feels like paper. I am not suggesting it's paper, I just don't know how to describe it. It has a rough texture and makes a sound when you touch it. The dress is unlined and would be somewhat uncomfortable to wear without at least a slip.
Here is a pic of the reverse:
The fabric almost feels like paper. I am not suggesting it's paper, I just don't know how to describe it. It has a rough texture and makes a sound when you touch it. The dress is unlined and would be somewhat uncomfortable to wear without at least a slip.
Rue_de_la_Paix
VFG Member
Hi,
Photo is not showing up...
B
Photo is not showing up...
B
Rue_de_la_Paix
VFG Member
Hi again!
Thanks for the added photos. I still think it is a roller print, or a hand block print....both a basically the same technique, just different application of the dyes/paint. I can see the impressions slightly on the reverse side, which indicate the result of the pressure of the hand block printing or roller printing. The gold would be stenciled/blocked/ rolled on last.
I cannot help with the type of fiber, I would need to touch it, but it looks like a ramie or linen or cotton with a rough weave like a homespun.
B
Thanks for the added photos. I still think it is a roller print, or a hand block print....both a basically the same technique, just different application of the dyes/paint. I can see the impressions slightly on the reverse side, which indicate the result of the pressure of the hand block printing or roller printing. The gold would be stenciled/blocked/ rolled on last.
I cannot help with the type of fiber, I would need to touch it, but it looks like a ramie or linen or cotton with a rough weave like a homespun.
B
sMarie
Registered Guest
Thank you ! I really appreciate your feedback.
One thing I wanted to add is that the fabric is somewhat thin, when held up to the light, you can kinda see through it. Also it is nubby on both sides...I don't know if that makes any difference though.
Just curious...when did they stop using roller prints?
One thing I wanted to add is that the fabric is somewhat thin, when held up to the light, you can kinda see through it. Also it is nubby on both sides...I don't know if that makes any difference though.
Just curious...when did they stop using roller prints?
vertugarde
Alumni
Roller printing and hand block printing are two different techniques. The registration on this fabric looks pretty good and I think it could be roller printed or rotary screen printed. Roller printing is still being used. The gold pigment dye looks raised because of the pigment - the dye consists of a binder to carry the pigment and with metallics this is usually in powder form. There's a lot of information on textile printing online.
http://www.teonline.com/knowledge-centre/printing.html
http://www.teonline.com/knowledge-centre/printing.html
agree, the registration is very precise, i can't imagine this was hand blocked. roller or screen would be my guess, and as Barbara said, the gold was the last to be applied.
they still hand block print in Indonesia, too. i love it.
they still hand block print in Indonesia, too. i love it.
Rue_de_la_Paix
VFG Member
Hi,
I beg to differ! If we want to get really technical about it...block printing and roller printing are NOT 2 different techniques. They are 2 different methods of the same technique, which is what I was inferring above.
Also, hand block printing can be very precise, with registration being almost impossible to tell from a roller or other method, if the worker is very skilled. And if the block was copper (not carved wood) then the design and lay of the dyes could be just a precise as any other method. Copper or wood, it is still called a hand blocked method.
Roller printed fabrics were really simply an improvement of the hand block copper plate printing....done faster and on a larger scale is all. Same technique.....different method.
Barbara
I beg to differ! If we want to get really technical about it...block printing and roller printing are NOT 2 different techniques. They are 2 different methods of the same technique, which is what I was inferring above.
Also, hand block printing can be very precise, with registration being almost impossible to tell from a roller or other method, if the worker is very skilled. And if the block was copper (not carved wood) then the design and lay of the dyes could be just a precise as any other method. Copper or wood, it is still called a hand blocked method.
Roller printed fabrics were really simply an improvement of the hand block copper plate printing....done faster and on a larger scale is all. Same technique.....different method.
Barbara
vertugarde
Alumni
As a printed textiles graduate I wanted to clarify what could be misleading. Hand block printing and roller printing are two different techniques or methods of printing.
"In the roller printing process, print paste is applied to an engraved roller, and the fabric is guided between it and a central cylinder. The pressure of the roller and central cylinder forces the print paste into the fabric. Because of the high quality it can achieve, roller printing is the most appealing method for printing designer and fashion apparel fabrics."
"Engraved roller printing is a modern continuous printing technique developed in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Until the development of rotary screen printing, it was the only continuous technique. In this method, a heavy copper cylinder (roller) is engraved with the print design by carving the design into the copper. Copper is soft, so once the design is engraved, the roller is electroplated with chrome for durability. The print design development and color separation are identical to that used for screen printing. Once each roller (one roller per color) is engraved, it is loaded on the printing machine. This machine has a main cylinder that is fitted with a large gear. This gear fits into and drives each print roller. Each roller is fed print paste by a furnish roller rotating in a color box full of print paste. The main cylinder gear drives all of these parts. As print paste is applied to the print roller, a stationary doctor blade scrapes away all the surface print paste leaving only that which is embedded in the design etchings."
Many carved wood blocks for printing are built up with strips of copper. Hand block printing;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ4_0shRurE&feature=related
"In rotary screen printing, tubular screens rotate at the same velocity as the fabric. Print paste distributed inside the tubular screen is forced into the fabric as it is pressed between the screen and a printing blanket (a continuous rubber belt). Rotary screen printing machines are used mostly but not exclusively for bottom weight apparel fabrics or fabric not for apparel use."
There are variables affecting the final printed textile depending on the method used - the viscosity of the dye, quality of the fabric and pressure of application and registration.
And if you want to find out more about the different methods of printing on textiles this is pretty good;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textile_printing
"In the roller printing process, print paste is applied to an engraved roller, and the fabric is guided between it and a central cylinder. The pressure of the roller and central cylinder forces the print paste into the fabric. Because of the high quality it can achieve, roller printing is the most appealing method for printing designer and fashion apparel fabrics."
"Engraved roller printing is a modern continuous printing technique developed in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Until the development of rotary screen printing, it was the only continuous technique. In this method, a heavy copper cylinder (roller) is engraved with the print design by carving the design into the copper. Copper is soft, so once the design is engraved, the roller is electroplated with chrome for durability. The print design development and color separation are identical to that used for screen printing. Once each roller (one roller per color) is engraved, it is loaded on the printing machine. This machine has a main cylinder that is fitted with a large gear. This gear fits into and drives each print roller. Each roller is fed print paste by a furnish roller rotating in a color box full of print paste. The main cylinder gear drives all of these parts. As print paste is applied to the print roller, a stationary doctor blade scrapes away all the surface print paste leaving only that which is embedded in the design etchings."
Many carved wood blocks for printing are built up with strips of copper. Hand block printing;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ4_0shRurE&feature=related
"In rotary screen printing, tubular screens rotate at the same velocity as the fabric. Print paste distributed inside the tubular screen is forced into the fabric as it is pressed between the screen and a printing blanket (a continuous rubber belt). Rotary screen printing machines are used mostly but not exclusively for bottom weight apparel fabrics or fabric not for apparel use."
There are variables affecting the final printed textile depending on the method used - the viscosity of the dye, quality of the fabric and pressure of application and registration.
And if you want to find out more about the different methods of printing on textiles this is pretty good;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textile_printing
Rue_de_la_Paix
VFG Member
Hi,
Thanks for all of that, it is quite informative.
My own educational background at F.I.T. taught me that copper etched roller printing is not a modern method and was not developed in the late 19th century, as your source claims....What is true is that etched copper roller printing of fabrics was widely used in the late 1700s. So they are wrong there, and I wonder how they got that wrong?
I guess we really only differed on the meaning of the word "technique" versus "method" which to me are not interchangeable. But I agree that with all the 20th century modern rollers it is not the same as the old roller way!
Thanks for that information.
B
Thanks for all of that, it is quite informative.
My own educational background at F.I.T. taught me that copper etched roller printing is not a modern method and was not developed in the late 19th century, as your source claims....What is true is that etched copper roller printing of fabrics was widely used in the late 1700s. So they are wrong there, and I wonder how they got that wrong?
I guess we really only differed on the meaning of the word "technique" versus "method" which to me are not interchangeable. But I agree that with all the 20th century modern rollers it is not the same as the old roller way!
Thanks for that information.
B
Rue_de_la_Paix
VFG Member
Jonathan,
Thank you! I knew it was the late 1700's but could not remember the exact decade.
I think of the analogy of churning butter...you could do it by hand with a wooden paddle, or use a mechanical method to turn the paddle and make more butter and at a faster rate.......but the result is the same.....a vat of butter. The technique is basically the same....turn a paddle until creams turns to butter. It is the method that is different...one is by hand in small batches, and the other by machine on a larger scale.
Vertugarde, I know that sometimes the word "technique" and the word "method" can easily be switched....but I stick to my original definition for the terms.
But I guess we just agree to disagree! That's fine.
B
Thank you! I knew it was the late 1700's but could not remember the exact decade.
I think of the analogy of churning butter...you could do it by hand with a wooden paddle, or use a mechanical method to turn the paddle and make more butter and at a faster rate.......but the result is the same.....a vat of butter. The technique is basically the same....turn a paddle until creams turns to butter. It is the method that is different...one is by hand in small batches, and the other by machine on a larger scale.
Vertugarde, I know that sometimes the word "technique" and the word "method" can easily be switched....but I stick to my original definition for the terms.
But I guess we just agree to disagree! That's fine.
B