Hart, Schaffner & Marx Tuxedo with tails. 1910??

LorrelMae

LorrelMae

Registered Guest
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Other than the Hart, Schaffner & Marx label, there is a Denver store name, I cannot make out. No union label that I see. On the Hart, Schaffner & Marx label there is a date, I see Mar.......and what MIGHT be 1910. Are there any other identifying details? Such as the rick rack, on the vest lapels, the buttons. The vest buckle, says "solid"? <which is partly blue?!> There is also a different type of _?ribbon?_ down the pants legs

The cotton on the vest gives it away, to me, as at least 20's. The jacket is lined in that luxe silk I love.

And here's a link to the images, in case larger sizes are needed.

Thank you!!

P.s, The Hart, Schaffner & Marx label is a sort of polished cotton, and kind of crisp.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/lorrelmae/
 
It's Gano-Downs Co, a quick Google of "Gano-Downs Co" Denver clothing reveals some info on the store. It looks like the info doesn't go past the 20s. Here's one of the more helpful, you can see them on a list of companies from 1911.
http://files.usgwarchives.org/co/denver/directories/1911-denvergi.txt

Sometimes with menswear, finding the dates of operation of the mens' store has been helpful in at least getting a range of dates. We have a menswear store here that just celebrated it's 80th year in biz, though, so sometimes that theory doesn't work.
 
This looks quite bit later than 1910 and subject to the zipper query below I would have said it is possibly from the 1950's. The style of a high single breasted waistcoat (vest) with a double breasted dress or morning coat became popular from the 1920's.

There looks to be a slight colour difference in the waistcoat and the rest of the suit or is that a photo issue? Not uncommon as men often didn't wear the waistcoat and it would remain in better condition than the other two pieces.

There are two types of braid piping? I can't tell from the photos. The cotton lining on the waistcoat is not a factor in determining the date on this ensemble. Cotton lining for mens suiting was used way into the 1980's and probably beyond depending on the tailor and/or production.

If the pants have a zipper then you are looking at post 1936 according to the company's history;

http://www.hartmarx.com/history.htm

Here's the company timeline;

http://tinyurl.com/b8d2r5

It wouldn't hurt to contact the company with the picture. They should be able to help with the label too.
 
Hi! Thanks everyone!

The coat is fully lined in silk, even in the sleeves. The lapels are 3 3/4" at the widest point. The trousers button up. The whole suit is wool flannel. The buttons on the coat are silk wrapped.

The waistcoat is cotton lined, with a silk back. It's possible the waistcoat doesn't actually belong to the suit, given the rick rack and braid difference.

The coat is faded on the shoulders. I found two more tags under the watch/ coin pockets in the front of the trousers. Cotton gauze tags. Only numbers on them. Six pockets altogether.

The hem on the trousers is longer toward the heel.

I'll try to get better pictures when my significant other returns with my camera. (I feel naked without it!!)

My gut instinct tells me this suit is no later than 20's.

I see a dashing steampunk guy in this tuxedo, with dust on his shoulders and emerging from a mysterious passage below ground!

Sandi
 
Interesting. You might have a mix and match. Are the buttons all identical on the three pieces? Not necessarily a sign since a new set of buttons could have been used to make it look as if the suit was complete.

Which parts of the suit has the labels? Well, it could be early 1930's and not later as I originally thought. It would be really useful to show the front of the pants if they are pleated and to see the cut in general.

I do like the image of the dashing steampunk guy though!
 
The Hart, Schaffner & Marx label is inside the inner coat pocket. The two labels with only numbers are in the trousers, under the littlest pockets, at the waistband. The buttons on the trousers are stamped Hart, Schaffner & Marx.

My camera hasn't sauntered in yet, so better photos won't be had until tomorrow!

This is a dashing tuxedo! Steampunk guy HAS to be dashing too!!
 
I just found this thread - let me check in one of my texts in the morning. My instinct is that the vest is separate but of the same era. If the wool has gone a bit green, that would indicate age as well. The braid trim on the outseam of the trousers is an older style as well. By the 40s at least, maybe the 30s ( I am a bit rusty) the outside seam sported satin or grosgrain ribbon, usually to match the lapels.

I assume the pants are flat front and button fly? and is there a small extra piece of fabric in the hem at the heel to protect from heel rub?

The tail suits I have found of this appearance were anywhere from 1905 - 1920, but let me get you better details tomorrow

Hollis
 
Good Morning!

Okay, the vest is an addition and would have been worn originally with a semi formal/dinner AKA tuxedo coat.
Tails AKA Full Dress coats were worn with a white silk or pique waistcoat.

The pants depend on the slimness of the leg cut. Slimmer is teens into 1920s. Wider, later 1920s. The same is true of th efit in general. The wide satin, peaked lapels are fashionable in the mid 20s. I found an illustraion showing them in 1926.

I would call the trim Silk Braid rather than rick rack, which is a bit misleading.

So I think what you have is a later Teens to 1920s full dress suit with a separate dinner vest of the same era. I don't think it's any earlier than the Teens.

One more place to look for labels is on the reverse side of the interior watch pocket in the pants.

Hollis
 
The pants seem narrow, to me.
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Braid on trouser leg.
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Isn't this rick rack on the waistcoat?
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Is it unusual to have two small pockets, in the trousers?

Thanks again, Hollis!!
 
It is rick rack, but the mention of it in a description might make people think 1950s house dress............

The pants - I couldn't find an actual measurement for the hem and knee. I think you are safe with a Teens to 20s range. 2 pockets are different, it's usually one for a watch.

Hollis
 
I was just going to post this but perhaps Hollis can come back. Is that a flap pocket on the trousers and was that common for the period you suggest?

I would separate the waistcoat as I'm sure it is not part of the suit especially with the rick rack.
 
What is a "flap" pocket?

vertugarde: I am going to sell this suit as I found it. It's not for me to decide to separate them.

Hopefully, it will go to a resourceful steampunk, with an air of mystery about her, or him!

Thanks again Hollis!!
 
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