help dating 1940s (?) dyed beaver (?) coat and hat

[laurenm]

Hi there everyone,
I'm thinking this is from the 40s but not sure. I picked the hat up the same day at the same thrift store so they may be unrelated. I've never seen a hat like this before so not sure what to call it? it has an elastic and is quite pointed in the back.

Please excuse the whacked out lighting....not sure why my camera sometimes loses the plot..and the model, she is trying!

Lauren

 

[Rue_de_la_Paix]

Lauren,

That is a lovely fur coat, and a lovely model. The fur hat looks to be made of what used to be called "Hudson seal" which is an imitation seal, of real fur but from a different species of animal. It looks to be from the 1940s, and the style could be called a tri-corn hat. At least that is how it looks in the photos. Very pretty!

I am sure one of our fur specialists will come along and chime in about the coat.

 

[furwise]

Hi Lauren, Very pretty and I like your model.

The trade name Hudson Seal that Barbara mentioned previously mislead people to believe they were buying real seal or fur that was a variation of seal.
Because of this, in 1951 the US Fur Products Labeling act was passed to protect consumers. It went into effect in 1952 and said fur titles and descriptions of breeds or species could no longer contain names of other animals and no more trade names, coined names, or fictitious names allowed in advertising, labeling, or invoicing of furs.

The fur of the hat is really black dyed sheared rabbit. The collar and cuffs of the coat is Persian or Astrakhan lamb. Both look the same. Persian lamb is from old Persia, now Iran and Astrakhan is from Russia.
I cannot make out the pelt seam lines throughout the body of the coat and I cannot see the fur fibers clearly enough to tell whether the fur type throughout the body of the coat is the same as the hat or another type of sheared fur.
If you can show me some closer and possibly brighter views of the back of the coat and maybe a photo of the hem of the fur line where it meets the lining inside I may be able to make out the pelt definition and see the fur fibers better to confirm that it is the same fur as the hat or another type of fur and what that fur type might me.

 

[laurenm]

thanks Barbara and Caryn....here's some close ups....

 

[Jonathan]

The hat is Swedish - Eskilstuna is a town in Sweden.

 

[furwise]

Thanks for those photos Lauren. The body of the coat is black dyed sheared rabbit too and I would say just the same as Barbara mentioned earlier for the hat. At the time if the coat was sold in the US it probably would have been termed Hudson Seal.

With Jonathan mentioning the hat being Swedish I don't know if Sweden also used the coined name Hudson Seal and if they did I don't know when they may have stopped doing so.

If you are listing on eBay or Etsy I would recommend listing as sheared rabbit and not mention the term Hudson Seal at all because an eBay or Etsy employee might mistake Hudson Seal for being a real type of Seal and pull the listing because Seal is not allowed to be listed on eBay or Etsy as it is an endangered species.

 

[poppysvintageclothing]

Also, I am wondering if the coat is not early 50s rather than 40s.

 

[furwise]

The styles between the eras definitely have some strong similarities. I don't think it's early 50s because I would expect a broader straight or more boxy cut shoulder, I would expect the coat to have a wide sleeve and cuff or more of a ballooned sleeve with the fitted cuff, and for the bottom to have more of a swing style or wider sweep.

I do think it could be early 40s because of the slightly puffed shoulders, the collar size and shape, the type of fur, type of fur trim, and the lining used which looks like either silk or rayon silk.

Here is a portion of a photo I have on my site that I used from a Sears catalog that I have that shows a faux lamb coat from the winter of 1939 that is similar in appearance. While this is 1939 it was the winter and I still think the coat above would most likely be from the early 40s.

 

[poppysvintageclothing]

Pity, it's not dated on the inside pocket, sometimes they are. Caryn, certainly knows a lot more about fur than I do.

It appears this business is still in operation. I wonder if getting in touch with them, might help you pinpoint the dating even more precisely.

http://www.manta.com/ic/mtqyb5x/ca/illbury-furs?ftoggle-frontend-prod-on=abTests.engagement.rebrand_a&utm_expid=82789632-28.cEgZ_XOVRPaI6jwvn6oKhQ.2&utm_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.ca%2Furl%3Fsa%3Dt%26rct%3Dj%26q%3D%26esrc%3Ds%26source%3Dweb%26cd%3D1%26ved%3D0CCEQFjAA%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.manta.com%252Fic%252Fmtqyb5x%252Fca%252Fillbury-furs%26ei%3DYFKHVLKuMYWNyAT_l4CACQ%26usg%3DAFQjCNFmVuv1Zl1rcw6m1B9Ca0uhRNVbhQ%26sig2%3DvOYAq2hkmykr8VDC6093eQ%26bvm%3Dbv.81449611%2Cd.aWw

 

[furwise]

Dates in pockets would certainly help for sure. Fur coats are a bit difficult to date because, well coats are coats, and they have been similar in design over time plus they are sometimes custom made by a master furrier with similar features from previous eras per the customer's request.

The differences were really subtle though from the 40s through the early to mid 50s and there were similarities too. There were swing coats in the 40s, there were also swing coats in the 50s. There were sleeves with super wide cuffs in the 40s and there were sleeves with super wide cuffs in the 50s.

Here's some examples of coats from the early 40s and from the early 50s to compare to Lauren's coat.

1941, similar slightly puffed shoulders, similar bloused sleeves with banded cuffs, similar shape, similar length

1942; Puffed shoulders(maybe a bit more puffed than Lauren's coat posted), similar shapes, and lengths

1942, similar shape, similar length, similar collar

1950, larger collars, super wide cuff sleeves, a bit longer, and a bigger swing

1951, broader shoulder straight across and sort of rounded into the sleeve, shorter, and a bigger swing

1953, rolled collars, sleeves with super wide cuffs, shoulders that go straight across, longer, and a bigger swing

1953, flat shoulders, big sleeves, longer, and a bigger swing

1942, an interesting ad where they called a fur Northern Seal, then described it to be made from Coney which was really Rabbit! Really nice and confusing..haha.

 

[laurenm]

Wow Caryn, thanks alot for all those diagnostic shots....love them and it really helps clarify things.

 

[Shygarden]

Thanks for those photos Lauren. The body of the coat is black dyed sheared rabbit too and I would say just the same as Barbara mentioned earlier for the hat. At the time if the coat was sold in the US it probably would have been termed Hudson Seal.

With Jonathan mentioning the hat being Swedish I don't know if Sweden also used the coined name Hudson Seal and if they did I don't know when they may have stopped doing so.

If you are listing on eBay or Etsy I would recommend listing as sheared rabbit and not mention the term Hudson Seal at all because an eBay or Etsy employee might mistake Hudson Seal for being a real type of Seal and pull the listing because Seal is not allowed to be listed on eBay or Etsy as it is an endangered species.

Hi everyone,

I haven't been around much lately and stopped in today for a few minutes. I just want to clarify that not all seals are an endangered species. Where I live, we harvest harp seals for their fur, meat, oil, etc., and the herd is 3 times larger now than it was in the 1970s, approx. 7.3 million. A little bit of info. at the link below for anyone who wants to read it

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/seal-phoque/myth-eng.htm

 

[furwise]

Thanks so much for that information Diane. I have seen websites that offer Seal products so I suspected that some types of Seal must not have been classified as endangered. It is interesting to know that not all are.

Unfortunately though being multiple types of Seal are listed as endangered species through US Fish & Wildlife eBay and Etsy cannot distinguish the difference between those that are endangered and those that are not so Seal cannot be listed on Etsy or eBay in the US at all.

All of the types of Seal listed on CITES checklist of species are either listed under Appendix I meaning they are prohibited from being traded or under Appendix II meaning they are trade regulated.

 

[Midge]

Late to the party... re. the hat label, the name above Eskilstuna would translate as "Borg's Hat & Fur Fashions" .

 

[laurenm]

Thanks midge and everyone else for all the great info.