Help dating hat

JojosRetroAndVintage

JojosRetroAndVintage

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Despite being a Minnesotan, I cannot, for the life of me, find out when "The French Room" section of Dayton's dept. store closed. I know it was pre-"Oval Room." Anyway, I have this lovely hat, tagged "Dowa Made Espressly for Daytons Oval Room" Any thoughts on the date? All the listings for Dowa hats I've found do not include dates. Thank you!
 
Hi Josette, I am not good enough to be sure on hats but my guess would be 1945ish.

I think one of the wonderful trade members will post soon with dating and more confidence.
 
Darling hat! I'm not expert at dating hats, but it looks a hair later to me--into the 60s. The shape is sort of a cross between a turban and a bubble hat, which were popular then. I think yours is maybe early to mid 60s.
 
top of Dowa hat- continued

Thanks everyone. It is kind of a cross between a turban and bubble hat. Here is a top/back view of it. It kinda folds over onto itself. Any more thoughts? Does anyone know about the Dowa label?
 
I have had one Dowa hat, but it was a slouched bucket hat, not shaped like this. I think I had it listed as a late 50s/early 60s--but I can't recall for sure. I also have this Paulette repro hat, sort of similar "feel" in that it has a stylized turban look and swirled/tucked crown. I have it estimated at 60's dating. I would guess yours is from around when mine is--although they're not the same style, they have quite a bit in common, I think. (And pardon my photos--I have to re-shoot this.)

Pauletteside1-1.jpg


Pauletteback-1.jpg
 
I was just reading about hat styles last week in some yearbook fashion reviews and there was one year where they were mentioning furred felt turbans and pillboxes that look like they have collapsed like a souffle were popular in.... and I can't remember the year but I remember thinking it was earlier than I expected... I want to say fall/winter 1957 but I'm not sure unless I can find that article again.
 
Hi,

I cannot help with any info on Dayton's French room, and while I have seen Dowa hats in my travels, I have no info on them except that the hats I have seen are all from the 50's and 60's.

I love the information Jonathan, calling them collapsed souffle hats. How perfect!

I have several hats of similar styles, 1 is a scarlet Dior collapsed souffle (with the earlier skinny "made in France" label) which is circa 1954-1955 so the date of 1957 ish sounds right to me as styles take a while to filter down.

It is surprising how many hat styles look 1960's but are actually late 1950's. So it can be confusing unless you do a lot of research, and unfortunately hats are notoriously poorly recorded in most of the fashion references and books.

I love that hat..looks like a buttery fur felt velour. Yummy!

B
 
Collapsed souffle! Love it! Thank you all so much. Amazing info. Thanks everyone. BTW- Does anyone know of a dating resource for UHCMW labels? I have a resource that helps date ILGWU labels, but not the milliners union. Many thanks!
 
Also, can anyone recommend a really good resource book for dating hats from the 20s-70s? I was looking at the Susan Langley 2nd edition of Vintage Hats and Bonnets, but I'd prefer more in depth info on the last 100 years.

Advice sincerely appreciated and humbly accepted. :-)
Josette
 
Josette,

That is a great question. Sue's book is wonderful and one of (if not THE) best books written so far on the subject of hats, and is a very valuable reference. I wish there was 1 book that covers it all, but there just is not. You need a whole bookshelf and then some.

Dating hats can a real challenge, in my opinion much more so than other garments. There are many reasons for this that i wont go into here. As someone who has been collecting and researching hats for well over 30 years, I still get challenged all the time! The best advice I can give you is to read everything written about hats that you can find...there are a handful of books out there that are good. Some books are a complete waste of your money such as "High Fashion Hats" and "One Thousand Hats" those are both completely useless. There is a lot if misinformation out there, especially on the web. And if you can find vintage and antique hat magazines, fashion magazines, or fashion catalogs with hat pages those can be a great help.

1 thing for sure.....Do not date your hats by comparing them to most of the hats selling on Ebay, Ruby Lane, Etsy and similar websites, etc. 75% or more of the hats on those sites are dated inaccurately. I have counted and done the numbers over the past few years so this is not an exaggeration. And again, the seller may be an ethical, experienced, and knowledgeable vintage clothing or antique dealer, but hats are hard to date unless you really do your homework, and even then....well..there is that challenge again!

Style alone will not date the hat in some cases...you need to know the subtle things about the hat, it's construction, materials, method of workmanship, head size, label and designer. Just to name a few things, there are lots more to look for. You also need a solid knowledge of basic fashion history as well, as hats were often made to go with the new styles of clothing for each year of each decade. And know the designer's or milliner's history as well.

And you just CANT learn it all from a book, no matter how much you read...you have to handle the hats in person to really discern the subtle differences.

It is something that only comes from MANY years of experience, and that will take you time. And you still won't know it all. A day does not go by without my learning something new about hats, and I have studied my whole life.

Best of luck..it is a fun thing to research!

Barbara
 
Dating hats can a real challenge, in my opinion much more so than other garments.
Click to expand...

I SO agree with this! I love vintage hats and have been wearing them for years, but only started buying them to re-sell in the last 5 years. When I bought them for myself, I didn't give a hoot when they were from--if I liked them, I bought them. Now, I feel like such a newbie, although I've handled hundreds of hats over the last 5 years. They are hard to date, and as Barbara points out, so many of them are misdated on the 'net. And I'm glad this thread happened, because I could have sworn my Paulette repro hat was early 60s and NOT 50s. Although often I can see how it's easy to not know whether a hat is late 50s or early 60s.....

And MEN's hats! Yikes--I don't even wanna go there. At least with women's hats I can generally make a fairly decent guess. With men's, forget it.....
 
Wowsers to Anne and Barbara and everyone else on your responses! Thank you for making me feel more comfortable with my lack of knowledge on the subject of hats. LOL Truthfully- they can be head scratchers with the styles and labels seemingly from conflicting decades. Thanks for the big thumbs up on the Susan Langley book- I will obtain a copy asap. I guess I look at all of my vintage interests- the clothes, the jewelry, hats and accessories as kind of a big history puzzle to put together. As you've said, it takes years. Even though I've enjoyed vintage for a long time, studying the manufacturer's and accurately dating it within a few years is a whole other ball of wax. So, I'm appreciative of all the learning experiences, for they build on each other. So glad to have found a forum where I can "ask away" and be offered the combined knowledge of many. Thank you!

Josette
 
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