Help dating sheared beaver (?) or mouton (?) coat

[laurenm]

Hi there, another coat....I'm really not familiar with the difference in feel/look of the two possiblities 1.I've narrowed it down to...sheared beaver or mouton....any thoughts?
2.Also, I associate this type of sleeve with 1950s and am wondering if this coat fits that time frame?
3. Is there a name for the 'hatched' sheared detail on the back of the coat?
Thanks alot,
Lauren

 

[cactusandcattails]

I vote for Mouton.

 

[Rue_de_la_Paix]

Another vote for mouton. That hatched effect looks like they cut the fur with giant pinking shears!

 

[EndlessAlley]

and another vote for mouton

 

[Jonathan]

DOes it feel like silk, or is it a bit scratchy, like wool. If its scratchy its mouton, if its like silk, its sheared beaver or seal.

 

[laurenm]

It is crazy soft..like velvet only softer..can't keep from touching it! It is really a very dark brown almost black in some lights.

 

[Jonathan]

The colouring is weird, but it sounds like beaver or seal to me. I have never seen mottled beaver before, so my guess is seal.

 

[MissRita]

If it's baby powder soft I'm thinking beaver too but yes, the coloring is odd. But if it's seal you're stuck with it so I guess it's beaver LOL

 

[laurenm]

It is baby powder soft...that is exactly how to describe it....the mottling is just an artefact of the sun and my camera, is quite uniform in colour in 'real life'. Would I be right in pinning this to 50s?

 

[Rue_de_la_Paix]

You might want to think about taking a small area and wetting it thoroughly. Seal, and to a lesser extent, beaver, will react very differently than mouton.

 

[thespectrum]

Beaver is baby powder soft & weighs less than mouton. If it's mouton the coat will be pretty heavy.

Have you looked in our Fur Resource?

http://vintagefashionguild.org/fur-resource/beaver/
http://vintagefashionguild.org/fur-resource/lamb-sheep/

 

[laurenm]

Yep, I thought it might be beaver, but the photos in the fur resource looked somewhat different and I knew from somewhere else about mouton sort of mimicking beaver. Mouton isn't a separate listing in the resource, I think it's under sheep.
The coat is fairly light and has a kind of 'crinkly'' stiffness to it, if that makes sense?
I was thinking about the resource...maybe I'm not using it properly, but you have to have a certain narrowed down idea about what you might have, otherwise you need to view each entry minus ones that are obviously not what you've got if you're not too experienced with fur. I wonder if it's possible to set up one of those 'identification keys' like they have for trees, flowers, insects etc.....a binary flow chart tree concept....long hair/short hair, guard hairs, no guard hairs, etc?

 

[MissRita]

If the colors are even then I'd think beaver. Sorry, I'm no help with dating, is there a label or anything about the lining to help denote the age?

 

[laurenm]

nothing but monogram.

 

[pinky-a-gogo]

Mouton isn't a separate listing in the resource, I think it's under sheep.

Because it is sheep.

The pic of mouton looks very similar to your coat.

The fur resource can use some more mouton pics.

 

[pinky-a-gogo]

I was thinking about the resource...maybe I'm not using it properly, but you have to have a certain narrowed down idea about what you might have, otherwise you need to view each entry minus ones that are obviously not what you've got if you're not too experienced with fur. I wonder if it's possible to set up one of those 'identification keys' like they have for trees, flowers, insects etc.....a binary flow chart tree concept....long hair/short hair, guard hairs, no guard hairs, etc?

The resource is set up for people who have a basic idea of what furs/skins/feathers they are dealing with. If you are dealing in vintage clothing/furs, the more you handle something the more knowledge you get on the item.

Usually--you can guess your fur to 3 choices and then by looking through the pics on the resource you should be able to figure it out....and if you can't you can always ask questions here where others will give advice.

Furs have different hairs in different uses. If it is sheared, the guard hairs will be removed, if it is spun or made into roving or yarn it will be different than if it is used as a collar in its natural form.
So a binary flow chart-tree concept won't work.

Tiffany

 

[laurenm]

Yes, I was able to find mouton under sheep because I knew that is what it was as I had made the mouton/mutton/ sheep connection somewhere in the long ago recesses of my mind.
I used the guard hairs, long hair examples just off the top of my head, but recognize that fur, as with leather and wool and other natural materials can be altered when in the hands of human technology, just sort of tossing around the idea of more of a beginners guide to fur in the abstract that might include such a 'sorting/binary' idea. Perhaps that's not within the scope of the Guilds activities.