Help identifying Men’s Hat Size 1960s

[Jennifer M.]

Hello all,
I’m new here so please forgive my novice. I have acquired a hat from the 1960s-70s that is clearly marked size M. I have measured the inside with a flexible tape measure. It’s between 22”-23”. My question is this-were men’s hats produced in the US during the 1960s-70s commonly tagged as a medium for a range of sizes? Such as 7 1/8-7 3/8? This hat could be valuable, but sizing it accurately is crucial to its identity and verification.
Thanks so very much for your help!
Jennifer M.

 

[MagsRags]

forums.

I hope Barbara, our resident hat expert will come by. I am wondering - and coming up empty - when this kind of soft woven hat transitioned from traditional numerical sizing to S/M/L etc?

I did find a pretty good comparative sizing guide near the bottom of this Wikipedia article on hats.

 

[Jennifer M.]

forums.

I hope Barbara, our resident hat expert will come by. I am wondering - and coming up empty - when this kind of soft woven hat transitioned from traditional numerical sizing to S/M/L etc?

I did find a pretty good comparative sizing guide near the bottom of this Wikipedia article on hats.

Thank you so much for your help. I looked at the Wikipedia article and it does seem that felt hats could be stretched for a custom size/fit. I’m also wondering what date markings went to S/M/L.
I too hope Barbara (the hat expert) will weigh in!

 

[MagsRags]

it does seem that felt hats could be stretched for a custom size/fit

If you do an internet search for vintage hat stretcher, you will see a lot of different types, mostly wood. I bought a vintage one about 10 years ago, and have used it - with trepidation - a few times with help from my steamer. There is definitely a limit to how far you can go, and woven like your tweed hat is less risky than felt.

 

[Jennifer M.]

Good to know! Any clues as to what the pin on the hat might be? It’s like a little vase. Have you ever seen one like that before?

 

[Rue_de_la_Paix]

Its a cool little hat. I think that why it is marked "M" and not with a hat size is that it was not made in the USA or Europe, but made in China or some other Asian country. They often marked hats that way (and still do). The reason for that is probably because their manufacturing methods are not as exact as those makers here in the USA or in some European countries. They sell these hats for cheap, thus cannot make a mass produced hat (such as yours) to exact specifications as to men's hats sizes which are measured by the 1/2", 1/4" or even 1/8" in size.

The little pin seems to to a homage to the Tyrolian or Alpine hat pins, as does the shape of your hat.

Stretching that hat might not do much or even damage it. It has a tightly machine sewn hatband inside that will prevent the hat from stretching much, if at all, and may even tear or rumple up the hatband. To stretch it you need to remove the hatband, stretch the hat, and then re-sew in the band back in. But often the brim will no longer fit when this is done and the stitches often break when stretched. A lot of work and usually is only done for an expensive or better fur felt hat, and done by a professional hatter or milliner. With those small wooden stretchers you also run the risk of putting the hat's crown out of shape as when you stretch the bottom of the crown, the top could buckle. So a wooden block, or set of 2 matching in size blocks (one for the crown and one for the brim) works best so the whole crown stretches together and the brim will fit perfectly. Better hats are always made in 2 pieces so the two stretched pieces will need to be sewn back together if you choose this method. As you can see, a lot of work! Also, wool felt, depending on if it is stiff or soft, is difficult to stretch at all and I never bother with wool felt hats in that regard. Better to go out and buy a hat in your size.

 

[The Vintage Vendeuse]

Any clues as to what the pin on the hat might be? It’s like a little vase. Have you ever seen one like that before?

I've seen similar many times. It's commonly called a posy pin or a lapel vase. I've also seen it called a "Poirot" pin due to it often being worn by Agatha Christie's detective Hercule Poirot.

It's also often used as a wedding adornment:

 

[MagsRags]

Stretching that hat might not do much or even damage it. It has a tightly machine sewn hatband inside that will prevent the hat from stretching much, if at all, and may even tear or rumple up the hatband.

I hadn't thought about difficulties of stretching a tightly stitched fabric sweatband, Barbara! That makes a lot of sense. The few felt hats I have tried a gentle stretch on had leather sweatbands. But I was always concerned about the potential for creating an obvious line between a stretched and unstretched crown, as you mention.

And yes re: posy pins. I inherited a couple of clear plastic ones from my mom - with mine, you can put a few drops of water inside to keep a small fresh flower alive for a bit. Your metal one might not hold water.

 

[Rue_de_la_Paix]

The posy pin is often called a tussy mussy. You put a small bit of damp florist moss or florist "foam" inside which would hold water and not drip, just enough to keep the flower alive for a few hours.

But I think the one oh this fellow's hat is more based on the Tyrolian feather holders often seen on the hats. Not meant for a flower when worn on a man's hat. No matter, it fits both descriptions! It could be a posy pin repurposed for the hat.

 

[MagsRags]

Tussy nussy? I love that!