Help with dating and more info with hat and belt

Midge

Midge

Super Moderator
Staff member
Here's two great pieces from my closet, that I've been wondering about...

First, the hat - got it at a fleamarket in Vienna a few years ago, somebody was obviously selling the contents from a very elegant lady's closet. I do not wear hats usually, though everybody thinks they look good on me. I just liked this one and I have a dress that it would go with.

hat.jpg

I guess it's from the 50s? Or earlier?

It has a label too - "Gilbert Orcel":
hatlabel.jpg

Searching that name on the internet turned up some old photos and ads - and an article from German magazine "Der Spiegel" from 1949, in which he is mentioned: http://wissen.spiegel.de/wissen/dokument/54/35/dokument.html?id=44435345&top=SPIEGEL

And here's the belt - my best friend found it at a secondhand shop (also in Vienna) and thought it was fun. No idea how old it is or not...

belt.jpg
beltback.jpg


It is marked, but I can't make anything of that (well, the only thing that comes to mind is of course "Valentino", but...)
beltlogo.jpg


Karin
 
I have a pair of boots from the 80s with the same 'V' insignia on it. It isn't the Valentino you think it is, but rather the 'other' Valentino' (Mario Valentino) who began as a shoe designer and expanded into bags and belts.
 
love the hat and belt both, Midge! those hats can be so deceptive when it comes to dating them, tho, and am on vacation so i can't check my resource books right now...

looks cute, though

and LOVE that label design
 
Now here's a mystery. I have that exact same label in a hat (and from about the same time period I think), but it has "Jr." after his name. I hope Sue can shed some light on that, too!

dsp_cl-gilbertorceljrparis.jpg
 
I found a few NYT articles about Gilbert Orcel. A 1959 one noted that Orcel was "a famous Paris milliner" who "eschews decoration in his daytime hats" and that "Every one of them is draped, tucked, pleated, rippled, and manipulated. The brims of his cloches, sluch hats, and sailors are fluted all around to look like pie crusts. Many crowns are dimpled."

It further noted that "...the rage for bouffant coiffures has seriously damaged the high class Parisian milliners" but that "Orcel has fought, and won, the fight with hairdos."

I will look at the other articles in a moment.
 
Here's a photo of Orcell in his studio in 1948, from the Life Magazine archives (not for commercial use):

orcelstudio.jpg


The "Jr." thing remains mysterious to me.
 
Gilbert Orcel Jr.

Originally posted by APrizeEveryTime
Now here's a mystery. I have that exact same label in a hat (and from about the same time period I think), but it has "Jr." after his name. I hope Sue can shed some light on that, too!

dsp_cl-gilbertorceljrparis.jpg
Click to expand...
 
Hi MC,
This Gilbert Orcel Jr. label I believe was around the end of the 1950s-60s; during this time, hats were worn less due to the hairdo takeover. In an attempt to rouse buyers, labels were modernized; for example, Mr. John adopted Mr. John Jr. and Classics; Lilly Dache', Dachettes and Lilly's Dillys. "Miss" was also used in labels (like Sally Victor) as well as "Jr." to appeal to the younger crowd. When I eventually figure out how to put pix on VFG, I'll be glad to put a sample (computer for dummies is too advanced). Sue
 
From the pix on my ancient screen, it looks like a fine straw hat with veil, can't see all details but from what I can see I think it is most likely from ca. mid to late 40s. Gilbert Orcel was a very well know, talented designer; I've mentioned his name in the milliner's list section in the back of Vintage Hats & Bonnets 2nd edition!
 
Oh, regarding the "Jr." on the label of the hat - beginning around the late 50s through much of the 60s, when the beehive hairdos signaled Trouble in Milliner City, a lot of milliners tried to keep things "young" with various "Jr." and the like added to their labels. Mr. John was another, "Mr. John Jr. was for the "mod-er" girls, for instance, while "Mr. John Classic" the more sedate ladies; he had several other labels. Lily Dache came up with "Dachettes" for the mods. Hope this helps some! Sue
 
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