How hopeless is this Philip Hulitar Gown?

M

metal_thread_vintage

Registered Guest
Ok, this is going to be a really long post, but I promise it will be of some interest to anyone who's into design, etc.

I bought this Philip Hulitar dress over a month ago. I knew that it had been altered, but I went to do some work on it today, and now I fear it's much worse than I had originally thought. I think it has been altered ...a lot. It is very similar to the baby blue one that sold at whitaker/spring 2006 and was worn by Jada Pinkett Smith. I've included a link to the whitaker pics so you can get an idea. The most apparent alterations are that the seam allowance in the rear has been let out (not so bad), the zipper was removed obviously to let out the bodice and then placed back in, but it's only half-sewn (That's what I was going to fix), and the hem is not properly finished. here's the stuff that I think was done to it that is seriously freaking me out:

*They must have taken some of the fabric from the hem or train (ack) and made shoddy straps out of it. I removed those. It was clear they were not original.

*I think fabric has been added to the bodice to make a folded over section along the top (see pics). The stitching looks wierd here, and there are wonderful pleats underneath that don't make sense if they're not visible. The gathered part at the center of the bust does not appear to be original either. My theory is that the part that's folded forward to make the flap on the front was originally folded back as interfacing along the inside of the bust, exposing those lovely pleats. However, I'm stumped on this because there ar two lines of stitching there that would be visible if this were the case. That's why I'm worried the seam on the inside of the bust was taken out and extra fabric added in, making it almost impossible to restore.

*It also seems (to my shock and horror) that a waist has been added into the dress where there wasn't one before. Mind you it's very uniquely done, with an interesting curved shape and darting, but still. The stitching here is on top of the lining and a seam has been created underneath (I checked.) Another ACK!

The good news is that the pleating on the fishtail is intact.

The impression I get (and this is totally just a silly gut feeling) is that this woman bought this dress THAT morning for her event, and literally had it sculpted on her body by her seamstress VERY quickly, changing things here and there as she went. Even the newer stitching is old thread. Philip Hulitar was RTW fashion, no?

My question is what do I do with it. I'm planning on at least making it wearable, by carefully re-stitching the zipper in. I'm going to tell prospective customers that I've left the hem unfinished because really it's one of those dresses that needs to be hemmed on the body anyway because of the draping. But the waist, the WAIST. I mean, it doesn't look bad, but it's surely not original. Do you think this has ruined the value horribly? And should I attempt to restore the bust area or leave it?

Thank you for any insight you can offer. :)

Pics will be in the next post.
 
hu2.jpg


hu3.jpg


hu1.jpg




The Whitaker Hulitar:

hu4.jpg


hu5.jpg


The bodice as it is now:

hu7.jpg


Underneath the fold:

hu8.jpg


as it would look if the flap was folded back:

hu9.jpg




the gathered stitching at the front, interior. notice the different in the top 2 darts and the lower one. The lower dart does NOT show on th outside. other 2 do:

hu6.jpg


The seam along the top of the inside bust. looks suspicious to me:

hu10.jpg


The mystery waist:

hu11.jpg
 
Hi Mel!
I just wanted to say what a fabulous gown! I sold a PH a few years ago and was thrilled when his daughter wrote to me. She said "My father would have been pleased to have read your enthusiastic description of this gown." It was a very gratifying moment! I used to love ebay.
 
wow! Philip Hulitar's daughter? That is really quite amazing!

I know that the dress has value as a wearable piece. It's just that it kills me to see it so altered. And yet, who knows if it was altered around the time of purchase, you know? Lord knows, I've thought about doing it. And it's so strange that even as a vintage clothing dealer with a huge appreciation for this stuff, you STILL get clouded when it's the night of the event and you're HATING on the dress you're wearing. I almost completely altered the straps of a Badgely Mischka gown 2 hours before an event once. It was like some kind of possession. I was in tears and so upset because it just wasn't fitting right (or so I thought in my delusional state.) Instead, I wore a different dress. I'm so glad I didn't do it.
 
Some times you just need someone you can count on. "Drop the scissors and step away from the dress".

I think if you are unsure about if there are alterations your best bet is to just be honest and share your thoughts in your description as you have here. It is a mahhhvelous dress by any means. Just yummy!
 
thank you peddler. haha. yes, sooo true about needing a reliable "dresser." My mom was there with me on that fiasco. She was a home-ec teacher for years, and thank god she had the brains to say, "Chaning the straps won't make the bust sag any less." It wasn't the dresses fault. It just wasn't a flattering fit on me. The dress I wore was a million times better and more comfortable. Go Mom!

May I ask what your hulitar was like? I've only seen about 10. And about 4 of this fishtail/train kind. I wrote to this seller Monika a while back just to say I was digging her dress, and she mentioned that she had another similar one that she kept for herself. I should write and ask if she has a picture. I would LOVE to see it.
 
Unfortunately I do not still have a picture but I have part of the description:
"Decadent hot pink structured silk satin skirt with boned corset bodice in a floral metalic brocade. Exquisitely made with hand finished details. Metal zipper up the back. "

I don't remember it having a train-who am I kidding-I don't remember much from 2 years ago.

Marie
 
it sounds beautiful. I can see why his daughter liked your description! I found a shorter Philip Hulitar at a thrift in Boston when i lived there, but it was missing it's jacket (I think) and the underarms were shattering, so I passed on it. I'm kind of kicking mysef now. Would have been nice just to have. The strange thing is that the skirt was velvet and had the same kind of watercolor florals on it. Well, different colors, but similar. It also had a ton of pleating on the silk bodice that was mushed. Wasn't sure I could fix it. Should have bought it. It was like 10 bucks. stupid. very stupid.
 
The alterations don't ruin it if it's wearable in an attractive way. But they do knock down the appeal to a serious collector and will knock a lot off the price.

If you can put the back seam and zipper back in their original postions, I would.
If the waist seam has no seam allowance, but is done like a dart, you could try undoing it and steaming. But---- if it leaves a line of needle holes, you are better off leaving it alone. It is possible it was done to fit her figure.

The hem - if there is a visible crease line where the original hem was, then you would want to put it back since it can't be longer than that anyway. It' s one less thing to have to say is wrong or needs to be done.

The neckline- I can't tell. If the stitching on the CB bow looks original and it's holding that neckline fold down, then that's a vote for unaltered. Generly speaking a neckline facing on a strarples dress wouldn't be full enough to make that fold.

But I really couldn't tell without seeing it.


Never, never regret not buying a dress with shattered armpits, no matter how pretty. There is nothing you can do for them.

Hollis
 
Hi Hollis,

Thanks for the input. Ok, so I think I will take the dress back in at the back. I can see where the stitching was, and it should be ok. The hem was shortened and cut, from what I can see, so that defeats any thought of finding the original hem. I am now almost certain that the bust has been altered. the bows were stitched back on at the same time the zipper was altered - lucky they used blue thread instead of white because that was the give-away. If I was going to fix it, I would need get rid of the fold over and take out the two top darts. Then, I would just need to restitch the seam around the bust. It wouldn't be exactly perfect because of the fabric loss, but I'm pretty sure I could make a very beautiful "folded-over edges" new one on the back side of the bust. Right now, the stitching is a bit wacky! Of course, that is the conundrum: The fold-over is rather pretty. Probably more flattering is some ways than the original for some people. ??? Better to restore the original? As far as the hem goes, it's would be a nightmare to do the hem without a fitting. The fabric swags in such a way that it is very difficult for me to see what to do.
 
The pics of it on your mannequin make it look very svelte and luxe. I would be inclined to leave it because you are either going to sell it to someone who will want to wear it and will have it altered to fit them perfectly, or a collector who will either want it as is, as part of its history, or restored to its original design intent and unless you are positive that what you are taking our and putting back is correct, then you might be making a mistake. THe fewer times it is resewn the better, so I would leave it.
 
I agree with Jonathan. The fewer times you alter a dress the better. You can never get it back to the original because the hem has been cut.

Just a little aside here. It is more common for high end clothing to have been altered in some way than not. Fashion dictates were more strict (hemlines would be to the inch) and a proper fit was absolutely required. Very few women fit perfectly into readymade (no matter WHO designed it) and even custom couture designs would vary slightly from one customer to another. It was more important that the dress suit the wearer and if that meant changing design lines a bit then it was done (especially for important clients.)

Your dress looks stunning on the form. I would leave it alone, mention that it had been made to fit the original owner and list the alterations of note.

Melody

Melody
 
thank you so much for the input. There seems to be a pretty strong consensus that I should leave it alone. The zipper is kind of just pinned in the dress right now, ready to be sewn in. Are you guys saying that I should also leave that unfinished and say in my description that when you have it fitted, you could also have that part customized too? Or is that ok to sew in?
 
I agree, hand sew the zipper and leave the rest alone.
It is a beautiful gown, just disclose what you have found, come may be original to the dress and just looks hinkey and some was probably done to make the garment fit the original owner....no matter who the designer is no one would have wanted (or does want) to wear an ill fitting gown.
 
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