Jacket Date...

[Sarara Brazil]

I have an older piece from an estate. It has some tearing in the lining as shown -where there seem to have been some pleats around the neck inner lining area. It is a short velvet material, the cuffs taper inward so that they are smaller than the arm area somewhat. It is missing one of the shell buttons so it had four originally. What are your opinions on the age of the piece? It is hard to photograph as it is black. I have some thoughts but am interested to get some feedback. Thanks!

 

[poppysvintageclothing]

From your photos this appears to be a seamstress sewn early 1960s velveteen coat.

 

[Sarara Brazil]

It's definitely seamstress. The inside is a little yellowed but the velvet is in good condition. I will see if I can get some better close ups of the collar in natural light as well. You can't see the big 20's style pockets but could be 60's does 20's elements. I will wait for a few more comments and try to get a consensus. Thanks!

 

[Sky Ranch Vintage]

Hi there.

From the pictures you posted, looks early 60's or later to me. The double breasted style that's free at the waist was popular in coats of the time. If you take pictures of it outside in the natural light so we could see all the details, that may help us to narrow it down further for you.

 

[Sarara Brazil]

Okay, I will take some more in natural light only close up tomorrow. But I thought I would try a low light to just get the details. This should really help. IMPORTANT-It just occurred to me that a few other clothing from this estate had buttons sewn on or added just like these to make something bigger or different. Upon inspection the way these are sewn on oddly faux with no function less than one half inch from the pocket seems to indicate they were added as well later. I think if you see the top button hole it shows more how the collar would have been I have closed it as such. So imagine those two buttons gone. It is missing then all three original buttons. Also notice the sleeves. This may or may not change your view.

 

[Sky Ranch Vintage]

I think the buttons are original. Double breasted coats are often this way. If the other two were not supposed to be there, the whole coat would be buttoning off to the side and that would be odd.

 

[Sarara Brazil]

They are just sewn so badly and they are way off alignment wise, plus why would the double breasted shape have the one button hole at the top? Double breasted items usually go under button first then the last ones come over and button too right? I don't know in person something is just off. This is a short velvet feels really soft. Just wondering but again you could be right? Unless it is just a bad faux style... I pulled it a little far over in the pic it just bothers me that the button is like right on the pocket....I am probably going to keep this one and redo it for me anyway but just a good discussion piece I think....

Okay just aligned it ignoring the buttons- the one on the right is so far over and uneven that if I used it there would be more than 7 inches of fabric under the flap to the left just there. That alignment of material in regards to pocket placement seems to make a lot more sense.... Plus with the top button in use the collar would be very small. Just imagine it without buttons and as such just in case, again you could be correct but in person it is pretty off. I think at least now you have most of the information you were lacking on the coat

 

[Circa Vintage Clothing]

It's not uncommon for double breasted jackets and coats to have their buttons moved, to fit the wearer. If you line up the side seams, you can see where the buttons were originally - If the button holes are in the centre, then it was originally a single breasted coat that was adapted for a smaller wearer. If the buttons are off on one side, then it's double breasted - and you can see where the buttons were originally. Sometimes buttons are quite close to pockets on double breasted styles though, so that alone is not cause for concern.

I agree with others that your coat is probably '60s, made of cotton velvet and perhaps rayon or acetate lining. I'm not sure what you mean by '20s pockets? They look like pockets with flaps to me, popular in many eras, indeed they never really go out of fashion.

When dating a classic style like this, I look to fabric, construction, detailing and labels for the best information. Eg, when you say the buttons are "shell", do you mean mother of pearl? Can you tell if they've been machine made or hand carved? How are the button holes made? I would expect an older garment of this sort and fabric to have bound button holes, but they look machined. Is there any shaping at all in the body? How is the inside secured, eg, are there buttons to secure the flap of the double breasted panel or a tie? How is the hem sewn? Machine, hand, with heming tape, secured to the lining? All of these give clues to the dating.

 

[Sarara Brazil]

Thanks, these are what I need to practice- no tape, no double breasted inside buttons, hand sewn hem/ buttons appear to be mother of pearl but sort of carved and uneven on the back and in thickness, no ties inside either....Again I am not saying it's 20's -the pockets were used then but as you stated they were used alot in various timeperiods something was off about it- the material seems older not like the typical velvet from the 60s - low pile silky, very very soft, the pockets are also in the front if I remember correctly if that helps. The button holes seem almost braided or looped into each one not just a plain common machine stitch looped a single time around. See photos I would like to make sure I am looking at those details correctly.Also all buttons were sewn over the lining / through it causing tears. Not underneath the lining.

 

[Pinkcoke]

The buttons are mother of pearl (or just shell), the rough back is the outside or upper layer of the shell, the marbled shiny side is the inside of the shell which is cut or polished to the desired shape/effect. They still make these today.
Just to say, I also have that thick button-hole finishing on several woollen welsh tapestry coats from the 60's. I think it's just a more substantial method for thicker materials or items that will be worn a lot.

 

[Sarara Brazil]

Okay good I was going to alter for me it but I didn't want to commit a crime against vintage if it was old old! The buttons and these things made me second guess it- again I'll check back to see if there are any other comments first! Last- photos one of hem which has fallen out it was originally about 3" shorter as a coat. The other is under the lining and pocket outside. Thanks all!

 

[Sky Ranch Vintage]

After looking at you additional photos, I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that the coat was made by a home maker and not neccessarily a skilled seamstress. I think this is why you're seeing details that are slightly off or a bit sloppy. What leads me to this is the first photo of the lining and how it's attached at the collar, the cuff of the sleeve and how it puckers, the interior seams and how they are not finished or pinked, as well as the machine sewn pocket. I think that if this coat was much older than 60's you would see alot more attention to detail and nicer sewing techniques.

 

[Sarara Brazil]

Agreed, it definitely confused me especially dating it but I like the idea of it...I think I will have fun with it myself and redo some stuff. Thanks again.