jonathan (and anyone) can you please give input on this

V

vgriffin

Registered Guest
jonathan (and all sage vfg members)....

i purchased this ballgown a while ago (not in person), and i thought it was a couture dior ballgown from the 1949 collection (the "venus" model). karen augsta saw it in person and, because it was unlined, and not made of silk (also unlabelled, which is not that uncommon for gowns being snuck in to the usa), felt that it was not authentic dior.

it was, as far as i know from the original owner, commissioned for her coming out festivities by her parents, when they were in paris. as you can see from the photos of the authenticated copy in the met (the gray dress), the sequins are the same, unique shape (feather sequins).

if it's a copy, it's a stupendous copy. i'd appreciate any input anyone might have. also feel free to send me a PM, if there are some things you might wish to say "off the record."

http://tinyurl.com/39wj54

thanks and cheers : )
 
please respond on this thread, if you would, because the long ebay url "broke the window" and i cannot edit the original post.


thanks : )
 
just adding another "filler post" so that the discussion starts on this thread, rather than the thread with the "broken window."

cheers :)
 
Absolutely gorgeous!

I wanted to mention that I can also see this as a wedding gown for a bride who wants some color. You might consider listing it in the wedding gown category, too.

Laura
 
A freind who told me about copies when I was first started out told me its the little details that let you know it may be a fake. Being unlined is one thing and not being silk is one thing. Was there a pattern for this dress and was it made from that?

Would really like to see the insides.... How things were finished and such are alo clues. Pretty dress on its own. Anyway you could look up recepits or is htere a place where there is record of how many of these dreses were made.....


-Chris
 
just an idea...(please take this the right way... :wub: )

when listing a dress w/pricing such as this, you may want to steam and fluff it to show it off even more. It looks GORGEOUS, but the front wrinkles and flattened/bent(?) back wing-panels are kind of distracting...and you want to get the very best for such a special dress as this!!:clapping: :clapping:
 
What do you mean the dress is not made of silk?

The lack of a label wouldn't worry me too much as you say they were commonly removed to avoid duty when reentering the U.S., however it does affect its value greatly.

A couture Dior gown of this calibre however, should be fully lined and in silk. I would expect the tulle to be silk as well as the material. Nylon is so uncouture, even though it was used as a novelty by some, Dior pretty well stuck to real fabrics. I have never seen anything labelled Dior, including off the rack Dior in any fabric other than wool, silk, cotton, or linen. I can't even think of any examples of rayon.

These dresses were highly reported on in 1949 and appeared in a lot of magazines. The sequins etc. could probably be had from any supplier, although textiles were often reserved for designers, I don't believe the findings were. In fact, the sequin embroidery was probably done by Lesage for Dior, so if the someone went to Lesage with a special order, they would probalby get the same sequins used. THe grey one does seem more luxe in its decoration than your pink one...

Are all the interior seams bound over with thread? Is the zipper set in by hand? Are the hems stitched by hand? It is possible that the original lining was removed because it was dirty or something, but the telltale signs of couture workmanship should still be apparent in the seaming and finishing on the inside. The dress was originall offered as couture, not boutique or licensed so it would have to exhibit couture workmanship in its contruction which means total handwork but for seams.
 
On second look, I am not getting the right vibes on it at all. For one thing the sequins are sewn down with a thread that is visible. COuture sequins should be sewn down with a bead, avoiding the thread from being seen. Also, the petals don't seem to be very gracefully set into the waist. It is difficult to be sure because the dress isn't mounted at its best. It looks like a knock-off to me, and not a licensed knock-off but rather a dressmaker copy from a magazine photo. SOrry -- don't shoot the messenger.
 
jonathan :)

thanks for giving me your very valuable opinion.

yes, i agree that the fact that it is unlined and the non-use of silk and the not-as-lavish-or-something use of sequins, compared to the identified example in the met bespeak non-couture origins. i just couldn't figure out the sequins, since i had never seen that feathered example in any other dress but this one.

i think the original owner thought it was the real thing. but i'm selling it as a copy, 'tho it's a pretty good copy.

thank you everyone for responding.

cheers :)
 
for some reason, when i tried to add additional information yesterday (repeatedly), the ebay system wouldn't let me. it gave a couple of generic possibilities, one being that from time to time ebay will only permit a seller to have a limited number of items for sale at one time.

i've never gotten that message before. i thought it might be tied to the listing fees i've accrued in a short time (none of which are overdue), so i tried to pay them, but the system gave me a blank page when i tried to pay by paypal, and doesn't show a record of the payment (and this is assuming that the weirdness in not being able to edit the listing has anything to do with my non-overdue invoices).

cheers --
 
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