Looking for date and infos : Griffin & Spalding Ltd Dress

[Fanny]

I'd would like to get informations about this dress, mainly about when it could have been done, fabric type, about the zips, lace/embroidery name ... Thank you for reading !


PS : There is a big hole in the lining in the back.
Black part: It's made of crepe, wich looks shinny on the inside, but not like satin, cut on the bias. Someone could tell me how this kind of fabric called?

outside of fabric, hem and inside of the fabric

The dress is asymmetrical and has asymmetrical cleavage. There is a lot of ruched details and drapery. The skirt is cut in the bias.
Picture from outside :


Front side, shoulder detail.

and inside of the dress:

front inside, seam detail

I would like to get informations about the lace too. It looks like lace with kind of "rods" in plastic that follow the patterns of the lace. Is there a name for this technique ?



The lace is lined with silk muslin and is mostly hand sewn.

Closure :
the dress closes at left side and left shoulder with zippers. I would like to get some informations about them. I read that shoulder zips were generally on 1930's-40's garnement. This one looks like an invisible zipper ( but not like a modern one) and is in plastic, which makes me perplex. There is a "L" symbol in it. What is the brand name of these zip ? date ?

Sleeves end are closed with press studs


This is the label of the dress, hidden under the lining:

Griffin & Spalding Ltd , Model Gowns, Notthingham
Internet told me that G&F was a department store at Nottingham ( UK), funded in 18478 and has been renamed Debenhams after 1973.

How would you date this dress? I'm thinking 1940's and because of the war restrictions etc, I would thing post war. Am I right or not at all ? I would like to get your opinion !

All the pictures of the post, it's maybe more comfortable:

 

[Vinclothes]

Gorgeous dress. It appears to be of very high quality. The fabric is satin back rayon crepe. I am sure others will help on dating.
Marian

 

[poppysvintageclothing]

That is absolutely stunning, I see 30s with this one. I would call the detailing on the side shirring. I wonder if the zipper was added at some other time as it is nylon. Often these dresses did up with hooks and eyes on the side. The drawn string which appears to be made of a supple straw is very interesting and looks completely hand done. Not sure what to call that, looks like something a milliner would use to decorate a hat.

 

[Pinkcoke]

The invisible zip is 1960s-modern from what I can see. Hook and eye fastening often result in holes in fine fabrics like this so I can see why they would replace it with a zip when available. The backless look is very 1930s, as is the straw braid, used here as soutache. However I wouldn't rule out early 1940s war time because some of the queen's dresses got around the fabric restrictions by using more than one different fabric, as yours does, and the straw was a common material used to replace those that could not be sourced in the 1940s.

 

[Better Dresses Vintage]

I'd say late 30s/early 40s, and just gorgeous.

 

[Midge]

What a fabulous dress! Agree on dating late 30s to early 40s.

 

[Fanny]

Thank you for your help and really interesting infos!
I'm planning on making a new lining with same construction as this one ( I've found the same fabric, almost identical colour) and replace it. I'm a bit reluctant on changing a piece of this dress but even if I could only repair the greatest hole in the back , the rest of the lining fabric is so much fragile that it will break in a few time.
In french, we say that the fabric is "cuit" (literally : baked) when it's has become too fragile and it almost tear when you manipulate it. I don't know if what I say is understandable, but if yes, what is the expression in english?

 

[Pinkcoke]

if it's silk (usually the culprit) we say it's shattering, or shattered/shot

 

[Fanny]

Ho nice! Thank you Pinkcoke

 

[Circa Vintage Clothing]

Shattering is not the right word though, as that is a particular process that has to do with the break down of weighted silks. I've written a blog post about it here, if you'd like to know more. Many people use the word "shattering" to indicate a generic disintegration of silk. There are many causes of silk deterioration. From your description it sounds like your lovely dress might have dry rot (see my blog post here). Silks affected by dry rot feel dry and crumbly to the touch.

Your dress seems to be quite strong though, and if there is dry rot I don't think it's progressed very far - certainly nothing like the poor dress in my post that had crumbled literally to dust.

Your dress seems to be made of silk georgette lining and rayon satin backed crepe (as Marian mentions above). The lining looks quite good, if I were you I would probably just repair as replacing is a big job. Thankfully, as you've mentioned, silk georgette is still available in a wide range of colours. Some call the effect displayed "illusion" as it duplicates the effect of nakedness beneath the lace.

As to dating, it's an interesting one: there are aspects of '30s and '40s. The zipper seems to be more modern but the pull looks earlier: can you please confirm whether it the teeth are metal or a plastic coil. I haven't seen an early plastic Lightning zipper with that pull but it doesn't look like the '60s nylon zippers so I think it could be original.

The ruched/smocked effect on the hip suggests this dress is from the late '40s but could be late '30s. It's unusual. More information on the zipper could help.

 

[Fanny]

The teeth are not metal but plastic. Hard to see on picture but they're a bit transparent. In both inside and outside, the zip is "invisible".
The side zipper looks similar to the one at shoulder, but the pull is a bit different; same style as the other, but with a buclkle.



side zipper (pic. 1/2), shoulder zipper(3), zipper from inside.

I also noticed some rest of thread on one side of the side zipper. They are each 3 - 4 cm (1.2'' - 1.6 ''). Could it be marks of studs that have been removed?

 

[Pinkcoke]

The thread marks are where the hook and eyes would have been originally. I'm quite sure your zip is 1960s or later. I have a 1940s suit with an invisible zip in the skirt but the teeth are metal and the fabric covering it goes into the zip head as well. Quite distinctive.