Old Tailcoat Dress Coat. "How Old" Help Please.

EndlessAlley

EndlessAlley

Alumni
While on one of my treasure hunts I found this wonderful old dress coat. I have read what I could find in trying to narrow the dates, but hoping someone here can refine what I've come up with.

Except for where the arm seam has separated the coat is in excellent condition. Coat appears to be hand stitched. The padding where the shoulder seam is open appears to be layers of cotton.
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Here's the information I found to narrow the time line for this coat:
~This coat has a waist seam - 1830s saw the addition of waist seams to tailcoats.
~This coat has no outside pockets and two inside pockets. - The 1840s saw the end of outside pockets and it wasn't until the early 20th centery that outside pockets became acceptable and this was the use of welt pockets.
~This coat does not fasten in front. - in the 1870s the double rows of buttons became decorative and it was no longer fashionable to have them fasten in front.
Satin or silk lapels appeared in the Victorian era. this coat appears to have satin lapels.

So from all this I'm guessing this Dress Coat is somewhere between 1870s and early 20th century.
If anyone know of other clues to look for I would be grateful
 
Thanks Carrie you for the suggestion. Yes I did search the pockets...even the two pockets in the tails. I'm always looking for those wonderful union labels. Nothing.
 
Does it have a waist seam on the front or only the back? With a front waist seam, the fronts are cut fairly square across. This is the look in the 19th Century into the Teens. Then the front waist seam is eliminated and the fronts are cut to point sharply down at center front like yours. This happens in the 1920s if I remember right, certainly by the 30s. Without being able to handle it, I'd put your coat in the 1920s - 30s, as the shoulder look a bit soft for 1940s to me.

Hollis
 
The waist seam is only present when attached to the tails. The front of the coat does go to a point but not as extreme as my pictures show. My dress form is a small female 34. 24. 34 - so the points droop a bit. I think my 3rd images shows where the waist seam ends.
 
The pockets in the tails are for gloves - usually there's only one, so it's interesting that you have two.

Your tailcoat looks a little out of proportion to me - the tails are usually longer, and less rounded. Is this the original length or have they been shortened? I'm also suspicious of the lapels - they look a little wonky so I wonder if they were originally wider and have been altered.

Tailcoats can be hard to date because the style is classic. The fabrics can give a clue: are your lapels silk? Is the rest of the construction all wool and the lining cotton? What is the lining of the body of the tailcoat, is it silk? Is the back of the buttons metal?

If I could hold it in my hand I could probably date it accurately but on the information provided I'm unable to do so, but these generally date around the '20s-'40s so if the lining is silk and cotton I'd be inclined to date it around '20s-30s but I need to know about possible changes to the lapels and tails. I think we'd need to see it on a man or at least a male mannequin to get the shoulder line - on a female mannequin they will always appear soft like this.

I've just recalled that you said it was hand-stitched: if the entire coat is hand stitched, it may be Victorian, but it would need to be every stitch done by hand with no machine work - if it's just hand finishing, you're talking about tailoring not hand sewing.
 
Well, if there is no waistline seam across the fronts, that does narrow it down to a 20th Century coat. And Nicole is right about seeing the fit on a male manni as the lapels ar a little hard to read.

Hollis
 
Bycin, how wonderful to find a tailor tag. After reading that I did a double check on all the pockets, including the two tail pockets.

Nicole, I will try to answer your questions to the best of my abilities. Regarding lapels & tails: I can not see a change in stitching nor thread color to indicate that they were altered. I did measure the tails and from waist seam to longest point is 21"

Lapels appear to be silk and coat is a heavy, somewhat rough wool. The sleeves of the lining are in a cream cotton and the body of the lining is what looks & feels like a silk fabric.

Buttons are fabric covered, the backs are metal and have the words ACME as well as some other letter or numbers.

I know there is hand stitching on the lining. The seams of the coat are harder for me to judge. Coat seams are made from a very small and even running stitch - even, but not perfect.

Coat was too small for the guys I know and so by default I am wearing it to show front and back. I am a size 8 and 5'4" to give you a sense of size.

I could send this coat to you :->
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Thank you for the extra details - and I think MS is right about the angle making the tails look short. On the pics with you wearing it, the tails look alright.

I agree with MS that it could quite likely be '20s.
 
Nicole and MS, thank you for all your time and the information you shared with me in helping to date this dress coat. I now have a few more wrinkles in my brain from all the info. :USETHUMBUP:

Alice
 
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