Please help me date this Sable Fur Jacket

furwise

furwise

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Hi again, Please forgive me for asking about so many items. I have actually been selling furs for a long time but since I have just recently been bitten by the vintage bug I want to provide the closest dates possible dates for everything I offer.

I appreciate all of you when you share your expertise over and over and I hope that you enjoy seeing my items and providing your educated opinions too.

I am reading books and looking online everday, also viewing photos and patterns, and posting here to ensure that I list my items according to the knowledgable opinions of yours so that I can share as much as I can with my customers.

With all of that said; This garment is a sable fur jacket. I believe the dating on it is somewhere between 1957-1962.

It has a super wide collar, raglan sleeves, and the sleeves are 23" long from the side of the collar seam so I think the sleeves will look like 3/4 sleeves on most today.

Here are a some photos. Would you be kind enough to share your opinion on dating this fur please?

Photos deleted because coloring came out wrong but will post more soon.

One day I will know more and maybe post more answers than questions. Thank you, Caryn
 
HI,

Beautiful, really in wonderful condition too.

It does not look like sable to me, the color seems wrong, as any sable I have seen is much much darker, and no striping effect or a more subtle effect. The under hairs look a bit too long and light colored for sable also. But I am not a fur expert, just going but what I have handled over the years and it has been a while.

Sable is so highly prized, and Russia sparingly let the pelts out of the country ...sable is not native to the Americas....and the furriers here that did make sable coats and accessories were only a few of the higher end furriers in the country. Your label is not one of them.

It is, however, very very beautiful. Nice thick fur and looks to be in marvelous condition.

B
 
Hi Barbara, You are partially right. The coloring was off. My camera was not projecting the color properly.
The fur is sable though for sure.

I also know the history of russian sable.

This is indeed Sable fur.

Sable is not only from Russia. The two most common sable furs are Russian Sable and Canadian sable. Both come from the Marten family. There is Russian Marten which is known as Russian Sable, Canadian Marten which is known as Canadian Sable, Stone Marten, American Marten, and Baum Marten.

I am going to take some other pictures and delete these because they obviously do not depict the color of this beauty correctly. I will post more in a bit.

I just really want to be precise about dating and am hoping for help with that.

Thank you, Caryn
 
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Hi, Here are some more photos. I am thinking my camera is acting funny because the color is not coming out the same in every photo but I am 100% sure it is sable. I primarily deal in furs so I know my furs very well.
Some furs like leopard are a little difficult to distinguish for me because the trade of them is not legal so I can't always tell looking online but I can usually easily tell from photos if a fur is sable, mink, fox, lynx, coyote, persian lamb, beaver, muskrat, or nutria, and I can definitely tell for sure when I have a fur in my possession what type of fur it is.
 
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Hi Amanda, Sorry about that. I had them in the original post which also had other fantastic photos but the coloring was off in some of the photos so I deleted them. I think maybe my batteries needed charging Here are the close ups of the labels again;


Thank you, Caryn
 
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For what it's worth, I think it looks 60s. I can see it over a full length gown as easily as over a cocktail dress. I would think it would do well for you...sable is so so SO gorgeous!!!

Ang
 
Hi Ang, Thank you. I appreciate your input. I think it would probably also look lovely belted. Sable does do well for me. I always feel like I hit the jackpot when I get one. I think I may try this belted with a full length gown. It will probably look gorgeous!
Caryn
 
I happened into a long sable neck wrap lined in velvet in an estate buy once....can't part with it! It's Russian, very luxe!

Ang
 
Hi,

Actually, my very thought was it reminded me of stone marten, and was going to say that, so if you now say it is stone marten, that makes sense.

I was not, however, at all familiar with referring to stone marten as Canadian sable. Is that like calling a fur Hudson seal when it is not seal at all? Or is it a true sable?

You deal in furs so I bow to your experience.

I do think it is absolutely beautiful.

B
 
Ang, Back in the day those little Russian Sable neck wraps were a lot of money. The velvet lining is very common in them and they still sell for a lot of money today. They are lovely pieces and wonderful to be able to say you have.

Barbara, Hudson Seal got it's name from people shearing it and dying it to look like seal but it was really sheared muskrat.

Stone Marten is sometimes called Sable Stone Marten or Stone Marten Sable but technically it is only in the same family which is Marten.

Stone Marten has light brown guardhairs and white under the chin. It is lighter in color than the fur I have displayed and is not as plush.

Canadian Sable is from Canada and is genuine sable fur. Canadian Sable fur ranges from chocolate brown to pale red in color, has a distinctive dark stripe down the center of each pelt, and the guard hair is shorter.
There is more Canadian Sable than Russian Sable. It is still more economical because there is more of it but it is still expensive :).

Caryn
 
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good info! the wrap I have is probably 5 feet long, narrow and lined in a nice buff colored silk velvet. stunning, soft and divine! I spent a summer working for a friend who bought a fur salon, where they actually designed and created their own pieces....it was enlightening, but I'm still not as knowledgable as you are!

Ang
 
I can't be of any help with the age of your beautiful coat, other than to note that from what research I did it was apparently made between 1930 and 1976 by Sygmund Haber.

I found a May 1976 death record for a Sygmund Haber (b. March 1901) in San Francisco. The only Sygmund Haber I found in the census records, who was born in Austria in 1901, was a c. 28 year old Sygmund Haber in Brooklyn in 1930. His occupation was recorded as "Furs."

I then found a 1939 San Francisco directory entry for a Sygmund Haber, but it had no more information than his telephone number.

Unfortunately I found nothing else about Sygmund Haber, but my suspicion is that he was your Sygmund, who moved from NY to CA.
 
Hi,

Thanks for all of that information. I knew about what Hudson seal is.....but I was confused when you said:

"Canadian Marten which is known as Canadian Sable, Stone Marten, American Marten, and Baum Marten"

I thought you were saying they are all names for the same thing. My mistake, as now that you have clarified it, I see that is not what you meant.

B
 
Ang, That is long and sounds magnificent!

Nicole, Thank you for your opinion. I appreciate it.

Lynne, That was some useful information. You are awesome! Thanks for sharing!

Barbara, I apologize. I was trying but it was confusing looking back and I knew you knew what Hudson Seal was. My written words can be confusing at times. My brain goes faster than my typing. I sorry. ;)

Angela, I love Sable and I love those huge collars! Thank you kindly.

Caryn
 
Hi Julia, Thank you so much!! :) I am more than happy to help with fur types, fur care, and anything else I can. It is the least I can do. I am truly so appreciative for the resources available through this site and for all of you phenomenal members!

Caryn
 
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