Please help me dating this dress

[lostindetailsvintage]

Hello I bought this dress a while ago which was sold to me as a late 40s/50s piece. Since I just started selling vintage this year, I want to make sure it really is this old and need some help. The round collar, the piped details on the sleeves and the brooch closure look 50s to me, it has a metal zipper on the side but the synthetic fabric and overlooked seams on the waist make me question its age. It's a fine rib material. The buttons have no eyelet and the button loops are made from a natural fibre. Everything on the inside is finished by hand and some pattern pieces have been puzzled together. I'm looking forward to hear your opinion! -Claudia

 

[GemGem]

ooo, what a pretty dress! It definitely has a 50s vibe, lets see what the experts have to say.

 

[Vintagiality]

synthetic fabric and overlooked seams on the waist make me question its age

The style looks early 50s to me but that overlock stitch also gave me pause though that doesn’t have to mean that it isn’t older.
Overlock stitching was actually invented in 1881 though serging didn’t get used except commercially until 1964 with the "Baby Lock" machine. I have actually read that there are some examples of even 30s and 40s dresses that were homemade with overlock and that anecdotally was because some women who worked as seamstresses in commercial enterprises brought their “home projects” in sometimes and used the machines. I don’t know how true that is. Again I have read this purely anecdotally. Does the dress appear homemade? Are there any tags or remnants of tags?

 

[The Vintage Vendeuse]

I can't quite make out the letters on the zipper pull... is it ZIPP?
If so, I believe that's an old German brand, most often seen in 1940s/50s clothing.
Of course, older zippers could be and often were re-used in home sewing.

 

[lostindetailsvintage]

The style looks early 50s to me but that overlock stitch also gave me pause though that doesn’t have to mean that it isn’t older.
Overlock stitching was actually invented in 1881 though serging didn’t get used except commercially until 1964 with the "Baby Lock" machine. I have actually read that there are some examples of even 30s and 40s dresses that were homemade with overlock and that anecdotally was because some women who worked as seamstresses in commercial enterprises brought their “home projects” in sometimes and used the machines. I don’t know how true that is. Again I have read this purely anecdotally. Does the dress appear homemade? Are there any tags or remnants of tags?

I actually have one of those 30s dresses with overlock seams which I'm a 100% sure of it's age. It has a lot of moth holes and is in a rough shape but it was made in a german home where most of the family members were seamstresses and sewed a lot of their clothing themselves. What you said about bringing the home projects to work makes totally sense to me in that case. I can upload the stiching of the 30s dress for comparison. I found it previous to this one we are talking about but I have no information about its history. But it appears to be homemade, no labels on the inside.

 

[lostindetailsvintage]

I can't quite make out the letters on the zipper pull... is it ZIPP?
If so, I believe that's an old German brand, most often seen in 1940s/50s clothing.
Of course, older zippers could be and often were re-used in home sewing.

Thank you! It is indeed an old German brand ZIPP zippers are very common here in vintage clothes. I had the exact same thoughts, the zipper possibly could've been sewn in later. It's always hard to tell, especially when it comes to an more exeptional dress like this one.

 

[Midge]

The mix of hand sewing, normal machine sewing and overlock stitching is strange. Could it be that it was a commercially made item that was altered?

 

[lostindetailsvintage]

The mix of hand sewing, normal machine sewing and overlock stitching is strange. Could it be that it was a commercially made item that was altered?

That's a good point. I just turned the dress inside out and inspected the seams. There are signs of alteration on the side of the top where it was made wider and on the waist is some scarring. You can see that there was stiching once. The puzzled pattern pieces appears original to me. They used the selvedge to finish the edges there. But I've noticed about 3-4 different colored threads used. And the pieces on the back of the shoulders are strange because the have overlock stiching on the outside too and have not been finished by hand or maschine on the inside.

 

[MagsRags]

I keep getting distracted by the print, which hits me more as 70s than 40s/50s. The scale seems a bit large and the colorway more vibrant than I would expect.

 

[Midge]

I agree, the fabric looks more 70s to me, and that flared skirt shape also hits me as 70s, and there was a lot of retro styling around in the 70s, harking back to 30s and 40s styles. I think it's a commercially made 70s dress that was heavily altered by someone who had a machine only to do straight seams, but no overlocking or zig zag stitch to finish the edges, therefore the hand overcasting.

 

[lostindetailsvintage]

You both are probably right with the assumption that it's most likely a heavily altered 70s dress the more I think about it. The fact that it's a synthetic taffeta-like fabric just seemed odd to me to actually be a 40s/50s dress. And it would explain the choice of fabric and the print. The colors are even really vibrant in person. I must admit that I haven't really thought about it that much until a couple weeks, but I'm glad to read your responses! Their much appreciated, thank you The herringbone stich on the inside is something that I've already seen in some vintage that was altered or repaired in theaters. I don't know about other countries but here they use a lot of old buttons, zippers and other vintage hardware. That could explain this unusual combination

 

[The Vintage Vendeuse]

Could the fabric be a nylon? I've had genuine 40s/50s dresses made from a slinky feeling nylon.

 

[lostindetailsvintage]

Could the fabric be a nylon? I've had genuine 40s/50s dresses made from a slinky feeling nylon.

Good question! The fabric is not really slinky as I imagine your nylon dresses to be. It's a stiffer material, it dries fast after hand washing and it creases a lot. How can I tell it's nylon?

 

[GemGem]

What an interesting puzzle. Learning so much from this thread. I thought the thread in the hand stitching looked older than 70s (closer to examples I’ve seen from the 50s) but I suppose the 70s is now 50 years ago!