Pringle Cashmere label incorrectly dated?

M

mad1964

Registered Guest
I tried to find a direct contact for the label manager, but the rabbit hole led here so...

The Pringle Cashmere label

from a 1970s man's sweater
Courtesy of jmmnkts​

has the size XL on it; (putting aside the Brigland table) alpha sizing only came into use in 1996 as part of the EN 13402 European standard. British Hong Kong reverted to China on July 1, 1997; thus the label is from 1996 to early 1997.

Correct me if I am wrong.
 
While alpha labeling may have been adopted for use in the UK in 1997, Sears and other brands and countries had been using it - mainly for men's garments - for many decades prior. We will look into the dating for the Pringle label in question, and thank you for bringing it to our attention.
 
My limited understanding of Bridgland's is that the alpha sizing was limited to SW, W, OS, XOS, EOS, XXOS and SOS. There was no XL. But, as I said, my knowledge there is limited. Do you have a link to the full chart? Google came up with nothing other than the article I had already read.

From the labels you linked to re: Sears, I see alpha sizing starting around 1960. This is helpful, as when I have been researching my vintage items, particularly those made in the US, I have been under the impression that if the sizing were alpha, then the item had to be from 1996 or later. Can you point me to other info on alpha sizing in the US and/or Canada? It would be very helpful.
 
A lot of men's sportswear used alpha sizing in the 40s and 50s - you can look at collegiate sweaters, Jantzen, White Stag - companies that made casual sport, or sport adjacent wear used it for their men's lines. "M" has signified a 38" chest in nearly every sweater from the 30s - 60s that I have picked up. I know that if it actually arrives smaller, and it's wool, I can block it back out to a 38! And, I have seen XL used in the US in 50s men's garments. But, again, sporty wear, only! As Pringle can easily enough be found in the States, and researched, I'm sure we can get to the bottom of this. The sweater's actual style and fiber composition will be helpful to assess, if the label ask more questions than it answers.
 
What about women's wear? I have a women's coat that I think is from the 80s (boxy, slightly oversized but not exaggerated) but it's a size M, so I assumed I was wrong and it's from the late 90s. It has "Made in the USA" written on the tag; that would date it no earlier than 1985, when the US mandated this for clothing made in the US. Content and care are in text only, so unfortunately no symbols to help date it, and the 1996 symbols were voluntary anyway, so text-only doesn't eliminate the late 90s. The name wasn't trademarked, and there is no RN, so no help there. I have found iterations of this coat with a newer label; the sellers claim it's from the 90s, but I don't put too much stock into what sellers say unless I can verify it independently (unfortunately, I have seen too many items for sale on Etsy or Poshmark or ebay where the seller says a dress, for example, is from the 60s, but the label/company didn't exist until the 70s). So any further help on alpha sizing for women's clothing would be great. Thanks again.
 
Vintagiality said:
Sears introduced alpha sizing in the 1900s
Click to expand...
I found the website that claims Sears developed alpha sizing "in the early 1900s" but that's vague. I've messaged them to ask if they can be more specific as I found the Sears 1923 catalog online at the Hathi Trust and nowhere can I find alpha sizing, not for men or women. Even men's housecoats are numeric sizing. https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uiug.30112004321169&seq=1

So when did it actually start for men and/or women? Anyone know for certain?
 
mad1964 said:
So when did it actually start for men and/or women? Anyone know for certain?
Click to expand...

No idea.

I have a collection of 1920s-1970s Sears and Montgomery Ward catalogs and checked the ones I currently have on my desk... Here's a shot from a 1941 Sears catalog using alpha sizing for men's robes with corresponding numeric sizing in parentheses. Whether or not that dual sizing carried through to the actual garment label is unknown.
sears 1941.JPG
 
Ranch Queen Vintage said:
No idea.

I have a collection of 1920s-1970s Sears and Montgomery Ward catalogs and checked the ones I currently have on my desk... Here's a shot from a 1941 Sears catalog using alpha sizing for men's robes with corresponding numeric sizing in parentheses. Whether or not that dual sizing carried through to the actual garment label is unknown.
View attachment 176264
Click to expand...
That's still useful, though, so thank you. If you ever find out more, I'd be thrilled to learn. And if you find the time to check on the women's sizing, that would be great, too.
 
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