Questions about cotton thread, synthetic thread, and dating...

B

BigBrother

Registered Guest
So! We have a local tailor who is OUTSTANDING. The thing is, she doesn't know much about vintage clothing. We've been going to her for years, oftentimes actually educating her about the various idiosyncrasies and details of our vintage garb. Today, though, I had a friendly disagreement with her and I wanted to turn to you all for help...

I collect, in addition to civilian clothing, WWII uniforms. Now, I'm not sure if you know, but in that world later-era additions are severely frowned upon. Patches are the most salient example of this- people are super wary of post-war patches having been applied after the fact. The way to tell this, generally, is by using a black light on the patch- later synthetic thread will glow whereas cotton will not. (Maybe this is a thing in other vintage worlds as well, I'm not sure.) Supposedly this isn't a watertight method for a few reasons, but that's not important.

Anyway, I got to thinking that if I'm going to have my uniforms altered by her, I might want her to use cotton thread. If she didn't already, I would buy it and supply it. I was even originally considering buying actual WWII military thread but was informed on another forum that modern cotton is a better option and much simpler to acquire. Made sense.

I spoke with her about it today and she told me she absolutely does not use cotton thread because the work would just fall apart. I pointed to a pair of my WWII trousers, in immaculate shape, and she said "well that's polyester thread." I told her, "no way". She then picked up another pair of trousers next to them, from the 1930s, and told me, "see, all polyester", even claiming the fabric of the trousers themselves were. I told her, "that's wool. And there's no way these trousers, from the 1930s, have polyester thread in them." Earlier, she even asked me where and if cotton thread is available, and didn't know it came in anything but white. She doubted the cotton thread I was finding on Amazon was even actual cotton.

There are obviously multiple errors here, in my opinion, but I wanted to really understand the history. When did synthetic thread enter use? When did polyester, specifically (or "Dacron" (?)) Does the black light test actually work? And why is this pro so opposed to cotton thread? Was cotton thread actually different back then? Is modern cotton thread not actually all cotton? Etc. etc. etc.

I would love to understand all of this! Basically, the way she described it, I had basically asked her to stitch and sew with wet noodles, and she simply refused to believe that cotton thread was anywhere to be found in any of my vintage garments. Some disconnect exists here.

Thank you so much, all!
 
I'm sorry, but you are having an asinine argument with someone who could easily ask google about cotton thread and when polyester and other types were invented. Seems like an argument you should just walk away from. Supply your own thread, or find a tailor who understands maintaining authenticity.
 
Well for starters, this person is not a native English speaker or very tech savvy (I cleaned up their responses to correct the English.)

But secondly, all the general questions still interest me, and I know people on here tend to have much deeper knowledge than I'm likely to find in what's broadly available. I'd love to get the obsessives like me to weigh in on those questions so I can get a better understanding, if willing.
 
I was by no means trying to insult the tailor you are working with! I prefer authenticity, and that sometimes means redoing every bit of sewing to get rid of rotten thread, but save the garment. Different fabrics degrade under different circumstances. Sunlight, damp environments, overly dry environments, storage issues -- these all affect the source fiber in different ways. I really understand why clothes were put away stinky - some materials just don't do well with a washing. And, I have a particular fondness for the cleaning and restoration part of vintage. I learn something new all the time. And, learning how different fabrics feel and smell when wet can really teach you a lot about how they will react under different circumstances. That is just the long way of saying, I supply my own materials (zippers, findings, thread) to my much faster seamstress, when I want to be particular about how something is done. If it is 70s or more recent, I have them use what they have on hand!
 
In the museum field you actually want to be able to determine later alterations and restorations, and using polyester thread is not a problem as long as it's not a harder thread than the textile itself, so silk is usually sewn with silk. Cotton is used also often used for sewing cotton, but polyester is usually used for sewing wool - especially heavy wools like military uniforms. Your seamster is wrong in the fact that the uniforms would not be originally sewn with polyester thread because polyester wasn't even invented until WWII, and not commercially available until postwar, so all WWII unifroms were originally sewn with cotton thread, but from a museum viewpoint, there is nothing wrong with using polyester thread to alter/restore them.
 
Just to add, that on sites like Ebay I often find lots and lots of vintage and even antique cotton thread offered for sale. I have a huge store of vintage cotton and silk thread in almost every color under the sun, and most of it is fully able to be used. Some of it may have weakened from time and how it was stored, so I find them best for hand sewing and not machine use. But it is available, sometimes found on the larger cones meant for industrial use.

I know that some of the "old" colors are no longer even made, so vintage thread can be a nice thing to have if you intend to repair vintage clothing.
 
Yep, polyester thread is post-WWII!

Besides wearing vintage clothing in every day situations, I sew for myself every now and then, mostly using vintage 50s/60s patterns and making relatively simple things like blouses or shift dresses. I also use mainly cotton fabrics, both modern and vintage. And I would never buy anything but cotton thread. I am guessing that you are in the US; I am in Europe. Cotton thread is definitely still available here, though if you want a larger choice of colours, you have to find a "proper" fabric store / haberdashery. Department stores that also carry haberdashery items tend to have a larger selection of polyester threads and a smaller selection of cotton. But then I also have older thread spools from the 80s and 90s that are still fine to use and I am holding on to them because some of them are in "rarer" colours and that's a help also for mending. My mother has been sewing her own clothes since the 1960s - she never learned professionally but she can certainly sew on that level, and except using silk thread for silk (definitely!), she also swears by cotton thread - even for wool coats and jackets.
 
Another point to note is that if using polyester threads as replacements on vintage washable garments made of cotton, etc., that the threads will usually shrink at a different rate (if at all) than the garment's fabric, leading to puckering and oddly shaped hems, etc.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top