Questions about Victorian Men's Shirt Collars, Cuffs, and Cravats

[ConservativeEccentric]

Could someone tell me what style of cuffs could be found on standing collar and wing collar shirts in the Victorian era? While I know that French or single cuffs with cufflinks are considered the only appropriate cuffs for wing collar shirts in the modern era, looking at pictures of some reproductions, like at Darcy Clothing, the shirts appear to have buttoned barrel cuffs. So, what cuff styles and button/link combinations are actually appropriate for the Victorian era's standing collar shirts? And in what circumstances would one style be preferred over another?

I like to wear a single-breasted notch-lapel button-up black frock coat suit with a standing or wing collar shirt (I am not sure which of these collars is more appropriate) and either a cravat in a Ruche knot or a tie; what kind of cuffs should accompany this? What are the daytime casual options? Daytime formal options? Options for attending funerals? Weddings?

Also, were cravats and ties in the Victorian era always either white or black? Were there patterned and/or coloured options? And were they usually rectangular in shape? Are the cravats with a narrow band in the back a modern invention?

 

[MagsRags]

Pre-1920s is not my strong suit, so I will be eagerly waiting to hear about this! It sounds like you take your wardrobe very seriously - would love to see some photos if you would care to share.

were cravats and ties in the Victorian era always either white or black? Were there patterned and/or coloured options?

A quick internet search brought me to an eBay listing for a paisley silk cravat is described as new old stock Victoria, and looks possibly legit. Url disabled - you will need to copy and remove my spacer
https://www.ebay.com/itm/REMOVE THIS SPACER304754487287?mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&siteid=0&campid=5338596370&customid=&toolid=10001&mkevt=1

 

[Jonathan]

"Victorian" is a big era, but generally speaking, Early cuffs are quite narrow because they aren't visible under the tight fitting sleeved coats, and they generally have a single button closure. Towards the end of the 19th century you get deeper cuffs, starched, like the collars, and fastened with links. Black ties for day are standard for business, but bandanas are popular with the working class and for casual wear, and printed check and striped ties for less formal day wear. Here are a couple of books I would suggest getting for more info:
https://www.libib.com/library?id=11886495
https://www.libib.com/library?id=102567641

 

[ConservativeEccentric]

Pre-1920s is not my strong suit, so I will be eagerly waiting to hear about this! It sounds like you take your wardrobe very seriously - would love to see some photos if you would care to share.

Well, I am not sure that I would say "seriously." I sometimes mix different styles or even different eras together, and I am not knowledgeable about historical clothing really. I just see examples that I like, whether from history books, period shows, archaeological finds, etc., and try to recreate them, only reading what I can find readily available on the internet about them in the process. I am currently trying to learn more, adhere more to historical accuracy, and generally harmonise my outfits better so that I do not accidentally look like some kind of mishmashed time traveller who did not understand the fashion rules of the various time periods he picked up his clothing from.

I would be happy to post some pictures, though I do not really have any at the moment; however, I have been meaning to take some this year, so I will pester a friend of mine to come out with me somewhere for that purpose (I do not use lightbulbs, so my home environment during the winter months is too dim for my camera to handle).

A quick internet search brought me to an eBay listing for a paisley silk cravat is described as new old stock Victoria, and looks possibly legit. Url disabled - you will need to copy and remove my spacer
https://www.ebay.com/itm/REMOVE THIS SPACER304754487287?mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&siteid=0&campid=5338596370&customid=&toolid=10001&mkevt=1

I could not get the link to work for me even after removing the spacer. How do you judge whether something could be legitimate or not? There are so many things titled "Victorian" that are anything but, that I just assume any google result that is not from a page having something to do with history should be ignored.

 

[ConservativeEccentric]

"Victorian" is a big era, but generally speaking, Early cuffs are quite narrow because they aren't visible under the tight fitting sleeved coats, and they generally have a single button closure. Towards the end of the 19th century you get deeper cuffs, starched, like the collars, and fastened with links. Black ties for day are standard for business, but bandanas are popular with the working class and for casual wear, and printed check and striped ties for less formal day wear. Here are a couple of books I would suggest getting for more info:
https://www.libib.com/library?id=11886495
https://www.libib.com/library?id=102567641

So, should early Victorian shirt cuffs not be visible when worn with a frock coat, or does this just refer to the over-frock coat, not the frock coat that is worn directly over the waistcoat in the manner of a suit jacket? I assume that because the cuffs had a single button closure that they were barrel cuffs rather than kissing cuffs? Did the cuffs have a straight/square edge, or were they rounded? What materials were used for buttons (and later cufflinks)?

Would a plain standing collar or a winged collar be more appropriate for an early Victorian era shirt with single-button cuffs? Had ties come into fashion as business wear yet, and could they be worn with both types of collar? Would a four-in-hand Ruche knotted cravat be incorrect?

Thank you for the book recommendations, but I cannot see them without logging into that site.