Slightly OT Profiting from Shipping....

Aphrodite_Nymphia

Aphrodite_Nymphia

Registered Guest
Hi everyone, I apologise in advance if this sounds like a bit of a rant, but I just to get it out. Well here goes...at the minute I buy most of my vintage from the US because you guys have the best items! Anyway I recently purchased a dress and the shipping charges were $26.30. Now I have paid that much before on occassion so I figured the dress was going to be sent via superfast mail - it wasn't. It arrived today with a cost of $8.70 marked on the front of it. So the seller was making $17.30 (I think) on shipping and the item only cost $9.99.

Now I know I am stupid bidding in the first place, but I loved the dress and I wanted to get it for Christmas so if that meant high shipping so be it, but I didn't expect the seller to be making such a profit on shipping! I mean I don't mind a reasonable handling charge, but isn't $17.30 a bit much for anyone?

Phew! I am sorry to bother you all with this. I just hate it when sellers do that, it gives everyone a bad name. Plus to make it worse I sent a nice polite e-mail, Dear seller and all that and I get back a swearing, un-punctuated three line missive calling me all the names of the day.
 
Morning! That's one of my big pet peeves, too. I do charge a modest handling fee (usually under a dollar and mostly in the 30 to 50 cent range) especially if my buyer is from another country to help me with Paypal conversion fees. I make every effort when I list an item to box it up w/ packaging materials and then I weigh it before my listing so I can be as accurate as possible. In the case of linens, etc, I send them in ziplock storage bags inside manila envelopes via USPS First Class Mail (on most occassions) and it's cheaper for everyone!

I hate getting gouged for shipping, too!

Patti
 
Emma,
If it make you feel any better, this has happened to all of us. :( And it really is a yucky feeling to know you've not been treated entirely fairly. I used to really get upset about this , but I finally just told myself, that the price I'm willing to pay is the price I'm willing to pay, whether it be the cost of the item, or the price of shipping, or 'handling" or tax... I try not to even look at the shipping cost when I get a package!

What really puzzles me is the attitude of a seller who intentionally alienates a buyer. You'll not go to that seller's auctions again, so he lost a good customer.

A slight hijack - My DH is currently on a golfball kick, bid on and won 2 big lots of them from a dealer who lives not 75 miles from us. He wouldn't combine shipping, and even mailed the 2 lots in 2 boxes. I could have driven to pick them up for a fraction of what we paid in shipping! But when DH bid, he agreed to the shipping, so that is pretty much that.

And then there are the poor nuts like me, who dramatically underestimate the cost. I just mailed a coat to Japan and ended up paying $8 over what I had charged the customer. :censored2:

Lizzie
 
I agree that all of us have had this happen and it is frustrating. On the other hand, I have had sellers refund me postage money when they
have realized that they made a mistake.

I also wonder sometimes if the seller quotes a shipping amount and then
has someone else drop their packages off at the post office. Unless they
are diligent at checking their receipts when they get them, they may not
be aware that the item went for much cheaper.

And then there are the poor nuts like me, who dramatically underestimate the cost. I just mailed a coat to Japan and ended up paying $8 over what I had charged the customer

Two weeks ago I sent a jacket to the UK and quoted a price of $26.75 for
small packet airmail - get to the PO and the tissue and tape I used
pushed the parcel weight up by .02 grams and I had to pay $41.00 to send this package. Lost money on that one since the jacket sold for $9.99. :(
One thing I don't do is go back to the buyer and say they owe more
money for postage - I think as a seller it is your responsibility to
quote an accurate price, you screw up, it is your problem.

Sue
 
Two weeks ago I sent a jacket to the UK and quoted a price of $26.75 for
small packet airmail - get to the PO and the tissue and tape I used
pushed the parcel weight up by .02 grams and I had to pay $41.00 to send this package
Click to expand...

Believe it or not, I've done that too! Although not to the extent of loss that you realized. I thought about that because it seemed I was doing that on a regular basis so what I did was pull off a few lengths of tape from my tape gun that I would use on a package and then I wadded them up in a ball and now I keep them in another ziplock bag and I add them to the top of my package when I weight it. This way I'm including the weight of the tape but not actually closing up the package so I can include anything else that I might need to...the invoice, for example.

Hope that helps!

patti
 
Thanks for the heads up on this seller! I'll be avoiding her auctions in the future. She charges an outgrageous $10.30 to ship a dress within the US that would cost at the most $3.85 to ship Priority in a Tyvek envelope.

Charging high shipping is becoming a prevalent practice on E-Bay. It is more and more common to see sellers charging at least $5.00 more than actual shipping. I do take this into account when I'm bidding, and don't bid as high on items with higher shipping costs. In the end, I don't think sellers who charge high shipping fees are doing themselves any favors.

Jody
 
I do now check shipping charges before I bid.

And excessive rates keep me from bidding.


I will say that international rates are a bit more difficult to gage, but an 8 - 26 dollar difference? I think not.

As a seller I charge actual rates. And if I charge more than $1 too much, I send a refund of the overage.

You'd be surprised at how few times anyone has thanked me for that.


Hollis
 
Being gouged on s/h is universally irritating, I think. As Lizzie said, it alienates buyers and pretty much assures you of losing a repeat customer.

I charge a handling fee, which covers materials and handling costs, but it is usually no more than $1 or $2. Sometimes I lose money on s/h.

Originally posted by pastperfect2
And if I charge more than $1 too much, I send a refund of the overage.

You'd be surprised at how few times anyone has thanked me for that.
Click to expand...

I was just thinking this. As a seller, it really irks me.

I have combined s/h rates stated upfront (on my patterns) so buyers know in advance what the rates are. You'd be amazed at how many people send me the full rate for each item they buy instead of using the combined s/h chart or waiting for an invoice!

Most recently, I had an international buyer send me $34 for s/h. The correct (combined) s/h amount was $16.50. I refunded the difference to her, and she didn't even e-mail me to acknowledge it.

Of all the times I've refunded overpayments, I've only once been thanked or acknowledged.

Laura
 
Hollis and Laura, you know it is so true that far too few people thank sellers for shipping refunds. I try my best to and I hope I have thanked all who have done so so far. I hope I didn't come across as a really stingy person though, I don't mind if a seller charges a handling fee I think that is entirely reasonable. Perhaps I am too forgiving, but I would let anything up to $10 go, but over $10, nearly $20, this one has really annoyed me. I will definately take Lizzie's advice and consider whether I am willing to pay the full price, shipping included in the future. It will certainly be the last time I buy from this seller too.


Emma.
 
constantly, constantly overcharged by $15 plus. i now just assume that if it's a seller i don't know they will overcharge me, and then it's a nice suprise when they don't. (and as mentioned, add it into the bid)

i bought a dress a few weeks ago from the us, checked shipping before i bid (as i really wanted it, so was prepared to go higher). seller quoted me $15 air, which i assumed to be flat rate global priority. i won the dress for about $25, and she emailed me and said she was sorry, shipping was going to be $32 she had calculated wrong (mistake no. 1, as sue said if you name a price you should stick to it, i frequently pay out for extra shipping costs which are usually due to my overzealous wrapping). i asked how she intended to send it and she said it had to go air parcel. said i didn't mind a tyvek envelope as it was just a day dress. best she could do was $28 and made me feel like i was really stretching her.

arrived in recycled jiffy bag with a $8.40 shipping charge, i was hugely irritated but i had just had enough of the whole thing and left it at that. it's annoying, but as everyone said i would never buy from her again so it's her loss!
 
I honestly don't understand why sellers want to alianate buyers by overcharging and then sending the item for a pittance.

<i>get to the PO and the tissue and tape I used
pushed the parcel weight up by .02 grams and I had to pay $41.00 to send this package </i>

I've had that happen too Sue... although my clerk is good... and she'll slip one like that through... we just nudge the box so it touches something, and the scale will go down.
Otherwise I've been known to snip off a piece of cardboard (a flap or something) right then and there. :)

I've also (with the permission of the buyer) removed the shoulder pads off a dress that I was sending to the UK, to get it under weight.

Love my international customers, so I do whatever I can for them.

We do become masters of packing don't we? :)
 
I understand your pain.

I like that on my website UPS is part of the website package and the shipping is known the minute they start putting items into the shopping cart. Saves me alot of time and energy. But I do have it stated that I will go through other methods like the US Post office.



I had a hard time with a sale I did sending the items to Japan. The post office was packed, so I went next door to a pack and mail place. He quoted me around the same amount as the post office. But then when I looked at the package he had put a fee of 33.00 on the package but I had paid 44.00. I am not sure the reasoning on that, but I didn't like it.
 
Pack and mail places always charge more. They are providing a service, even if they do not pack it for you. I don't mind if they are packing it for me, but i would not be happy if they charged me 10 extra dollars as a handling fee. a buck or two i don't mind.
 
well I can tell you, I won't be going there again, even if my life is depending on it. I will wait in line like the rest of the very smart people who have realized the errors in the packaging places ways!!!!!!
 
I never buy from, particularly from another country, without requesting the postage first. after being ripped off the first couple times, I quickly learned. I will not bid if the postage is unreasonable.

But I would like to add that as a seller, I rarely make mistakes with the postage because I have a small electronic scale, I weigh the item and get the price from a list of prices I printed off the royal mails website . I have often wondered why more US sellers dont so this, ( usps website has all the info) they have often written back saying they will have to take the item to the Post office to have it weighed, which is obviously a big added hassle for them.

I recently bid on something after I asked the seller what the postage would be, she gave me an approx. amount which I was fine with. when I won the auction, she quoted me about 3 times as much as she originally stated. She did tell me that she was new at shipping out of the country so wasnt sure of the options. I asked her to check the weight and make sure it was right, she said she would take it to the PO.

I sugessted that rather than do that, if she had a scale, she could weigh it, she did and the weight and size were small enough to fit into the LG global priority envelope flat rate for $9 plus a small handling charge. She was surpirsed but also very keen to know more about the flat rate envelope so I sent her a link so she could read more about it. Some sellers partciularly new to international, dont know the different options available.

To avoid being ripped off, ask before bidding! its the only way to be sure.
 
This is a great topic, and one that makes my blood boil! I'm going to rant here, too! I've found that many sellers on eBay make a large majority of their profit on their outrageous handling charges! They price their stuff way low to get bids, then if it doesn't get bid up, they still have gotten their money back on the handling charges! I complained to one seller about his $7.00 handling fee on a $6 item that, though he had shipping cost posted, there was no way to know its size & weight. His cost to ship was less than $2.00! There was no packing material in the envelope, so it wasn't like he was charging for packing materials or his time in packing. I complained, and he writes back & tells me his handling charges cover ALL his overhead, including employee wages.... And tried to lecture me--someone with over 20 yrs experience in distribution & sales, on business procedure & costs. Apparently he didn't realize those costs are factored into the item price, not the handling charges.... He did give me a partial refund, though.

It's against eBay policy for sellers to charge exorbitant handling fees, and I would report this seller who charged a $17+ handling fee! Probably nothing will come of it, this person should be put on notice that their outrageous practices won't be glossed over! Even though you knew what the charge would be upfront, you had no way of knowing for sure what the actual cost to ship would be!

Something to remember is that PayPal charges its fees on shipping as well as on the sale price, which I think is wrong, but if you don't charge a handling fee, your item cost will have to absorb that. I charge anywhere from about $1.50 to $2.50, depending on the number of items in the box, cost of box or envelope, and cost of packing materials. I sometimes charge a bit more when shipping items like pottery or crystal, because they are so time consuming and require extra packing material. Even with that, I don't make any profit on shipping, just enough to break even, if that, on actual cost. Packing stuff is expensive! I found I was sometimes losing money not charging a handling fee. I now have one of those electronic scales & it's made a huge difference. They are under $20, and will pay for themselves in short order!

Sometimes I use flat cost, sometimes calculated, esp. if the item is very heavy. And, like most of you, I do refund if the actual costs end up being a lot less, if, e.g., I've estimated for West Coast shipping (which I often do, 'cuz I sell a lot out there), and it ships within my same zone. Or if I end up able to get the thing into a smaller/lighter box. And, like you all, I've very rarely had a customer thank me for doing so. Now I only refund if my estimated cost was way over. And every once in a while, my final packed weight ends up being over my quick weight, and I lose money. So it evens out. But I would NEVER think of asking a buyer post sale to pay more.....

Well, sorry for the rant, but this is something that really, really sticks in my craw!
 
Update on the $17.30 shipping charge seller... Well now I thought this whole matter was done and dusted. I replied to the nasty e-mail, Dear seller etc, ending with a polite Regards and never getting annoyed (or at least seeming so) in the message. I tried to be polite and said that I was sorry the seller felt that way and that yes I agreed to the shipping charge when I bid, and that would be fine if that was the actual cost, or close to, the actual cost of shipping, but what I objected to was the undisclosed $17.30 handling charge. Anyway I said that obviously they didn't want to take the matter any further and I would end it there. So I am away all week, never hear anything from them and I forget about it. I didn't expect to hear from them again, then I get an e-mail last night, that shockingly seemed quite friendly. They said they had such and such costs on e-Bay etc etc and that if I wished to have a refund of the extra shipping they would issue one. So I replied that I appreciated that and thanked them, again set out formally and I hope in a polite manner.

Then they send me this:

I AM SENDING YOU ALL YOUR MONEY BACK KEEP IT AND YOU ARE SO WRONG AND CANT ABIDE BY THE RULES. YOU BID ON SOMETHING AND THEN COMPLAIN AFTER YOU GET IT WHEN IT WAS RIGHT THERE. THAT IS SO WRONG I HOPE YOU ARE PROUD. I DONT NEED YOUR MONEY YOU SHOULD BE PROUD OF YOURSELF KEEEP IT IT IS FREE. WRONG A POOR EBAYER IN MY POINT. YOU AGREED ON EVERYTHING AND THEN COMPLAIN AFTER NOT A GOOD EBAYER A FULL REFUND IS IN YOUR PAYPAL. GIVE THE MONEY TO A CHARITY, BUT I AM SURE YOU WOULDNT.

Needless to say I am shocked. Even in the cicumstances I have been nothing but polite to them and I never asked for a refund of the extra shipping until they offered. Of course I will be sending back the cost of the item and the actual shipping, but no doubt this will aggravate them more. I really hate situations like this and honestly I wish I had never said anything in the first place. I am mad however at the character attacks and accusing me of not abiding by the rules when they are breaking the rules charging such a high handling fee. I did think of reporting them too Anne, but I don't know how and I am afraid it will cause me more trouble.

By the way I hope I haven't done wrong posting this e-mail here. I haven't added any names so I hope it is alright, it was just the only way I could get across what they were saying to me.




Emma.
 
Emma,

WOW. I just don't understand that response. I bet they were just having a bad day and were taking it out on you as you were polite.

I agree that by bidding one agrees...but does not agree to be taken advantage of as part of the package

For handling fees, etc. I do not mind paying a little more on a website, but shipping seems to be part of competitive pricing on ebay. It certainly is on newer items that are pletiful in duplicates and triplicates. Not so much so on gowns that will go for hundreds, but since people can shop around looking at what others charge, it is good and bad. It makes consumers more aware and take their busines away from people that take advantage of them, but then it doesn't allow much leeway for sellers.

I think some disparity lies in the fact that some folks on ebay are regular sellers and some sell on occasion and the folks that are occasion and handle themselves isntead of an occasional business but youa re taking their treasures from them, so to speak, want to be reimbursed for the hours they spend on prepping the item, and every piece of tape

I certainly do not mind someone rounding up to cover paypal fees on the shipping and paying more if i am indeed getting increased service for it. In fact, if the handling has to be more than a buck or two, i would suggest sellers add it into their item price to cover doing the cost of business or learn that they can write off their losses.

I was going to bid on a purse for .99 and then noticed the $18 handling fee. I wouldn't mind paying 18.99 for it, but wasn't about to give it to someone in a handling fee.
 
<i>I was going to bid on a purse for .99 and then noticed the $18 handling fee.</i>

$18 handling for a purse? OMG--that's absurd! How people can get away with these outlandish handling fees is beyond me! I once reported an auction to to eBay because of excessive handling charges, but when you click thru the automated system, it doesn't really let you explain specifically why you're reporting the auction, so I'm not sure my report ever got investigated anyway. So perhaps blowing in a seller doesn't do any good anyway.....

Of course, most businesses today charge handling fees on shipping, and I don't think most people mind a small one. I know I don't mind a minimal one if I get fast service, good packing, and good after-sale service if & when necessary. But I must assume that people who would balk at paying a handling fee to an online department store don't bat an eyelash at paying these outrageous ones to eBay sellers. How else could these sellers continue to do charge them? I wonder if it's because customers think they're getting such a good "buy" that they don't care? Personally I think it's unethical. It's a shame that eBay pricing has gotten so competitive because, depending on what you are selling, you often must be so price competitive to generate bids, you almost have to charge that extra fee. My experience, not so much with vintage but with a very competitive item I was selling a while ago, has been that people look only at the price and it doesn't seem to "click" with them that they have to factor shipping in, too. I was $10 to $15 lower with my shipping than other sellers, and was asking about $10 more for the items, but the folks asking lower were getting the bids, although they were way overcharging on shipping! So, I lowered my item price, upped the shipping, and voila, started selling the stuff--at basically a higher total cost than before..... Go figure!
 
Just wanted to add my 2 cents here, also. It burns me up to see items for sale at a low start, with shipping cost so high, they're almost comical. I try to keep my shipping costs reasonable, and charge a $2.00+ handling fee for most items. However, there are items that just require more money, and effort, to ship. For instance; To package a small, train case, I had to pay $2.99 for a box. $3.99 for bubble wrap, and packing peanuts. Not too mention, my obsession with gift wrapping .:wacko:
This is my preference, so my fee's are a flat rate, usually, no more than $2.50 handling, even for small items. No matter what I ship, it will always leave here, neatly wrapped, and gift-wrapped. Sometimes, even with a bow. lol! Thats my choice as a seller.

Now my honest opinions about some buyers on ebay recently, are equally as disappointing....In my opinion, Prices are dropping for more reasons than bad quality items, I've been buying and selling on ebay, since it's first days on the internet, and never had any problems with anything I've sold to a buyer, until recently. In my opinion, people want to pay pennies, for items they are hoping to re-sell for $100.'s. My advice to these greedy, nit-picking individuals, is: If you buy any vintage item, for under $20.00 total cost, and find a pin hole on the hemline, or, even worse, a musty odor. So What?Thats part of the vintage buying game. So before you email a seller, and demand a full refund, stop, and ask yourself; "How many times did I buy an item from an estate sale, or thrift shop, for over $20.00, thinking it was a bargain, and someone say's " I wouldn't pay more than $1.00 for that style dress"? I dont know about anyone else here, but I've thrown away items that cost hundreds, because I made a bad buy. I know many of you here have done the same thing too. So why, all of a sudden, are buyers jumping through hoops, to get refunds for purchases they paid less for, than I paid for listing fees? I mean, even go to extremes, like lying, and damaging the item themselves. Whatever happened to polite communication? I mean, even if you don't agree with each other, there is no need to insult someone, or make up lies to discredit a seller, over a lousy $20.00 sale. Just because your not as pleased with an item as you would like to be, doesn't mean the seller is dishonest, because they don't feel the same way you do.

To these types of buyers, I just want to say "Life has no guarantees...and things dont always work out how we'd like...and sometimes you have to settle for a 50% profit, instead of a 100%. I try to be as thorough as I can be in my descriptions, but I have overlooked things, or got distracted, and overlooked a fact, I had originally intended to mention, Also, yes, I have even made the grave error of simply, not seeing the same flaws, that an ebay buyer saw. For this common human imperfection, I am trully sorry, and to all those in ebay-land, who are with-out any flaws, and or, other-wise human imperfections, I offer you now, my most, honest, sincere, heart-felt, apologies.
:headbang: ROCK-ON!!!
Sorry for any grammar, or spelling errors, I'm trying to rush, as I am late for work.....:hiya:
the above is JMHPO
All I am saying is we all need to be a little more understanding, and have some compassion for our, imperfect, yet maybe still, intentionally honest, flawed human, ebay sellers, and buyers too.
TTFN
 
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