Taken aback by an answer to a question

[pauline]

I was taking to a friend face to face a while ago here in the UK who is really into vintage fashions about vintage fur coats in general , I know she wears a real vintage fur jacket on cold day when she has to park her car some distance from the office and has to walk a sort distance, adding that she never has never experienced any problems from any one about wearing real fur in the day time maybe they do not know it's real fur.

We all all familiar with the " vintage fur debate" pro's can con's of that etc so I not really thinking about re opening that in this post.
My friend also said she knew of a ladies who have travelled to European to a farriers to buy a modern real fur.
Been something of a rebel I decided to asked her if - she would ever conceder wearing a modern real fur ? the reply was along the lines that modern fur was out of her price range any way.

So I changed my question slightly too - If cost was not an issue would you wear modern real fur?

I know things are different in many countries but here in the UK even wearing vintage fur is difficult but a whole lot easier than wearing modern fur,I was expecting my friend to say she would only wears vintage fur,
So that is why I was taken aback when my friend reply to my revised question that she would not have a problem wearing modern fur today (as long as no cruelty was involve in it's manufacture).

My friend looks great wearing vintage anyway I am not sure if it's PC of me to say this I do hope one day that she is in a financial position to see her one day walking into the office wearing a modern fur even if it's only me she feel comfortable admiring that it's a modern fur coat.

I just thought I share this with you .

 

[pinky-a-gogo]

She would not have a problem wearing modern fur today (as long as no cruelty was involve in it's manufacture).

Really---does she think they take an older mink who has lived a lifetime of romping and playing in the fields and then when ready to die, they place him on a pillowy bed surrounded by his mink friends and family and they all sing kumbaya while discussing what a great full, long life he has had.
And when he has passed the mink family graciously donates his body to the furrier to make a lovely new coat--cruelty free?

I am not debating the fur issue--we all have free choice to wear what we want--but there is no such thing as "cruelty free" fur manufacturing.

In China--they skin the animals while still alive.
In the USA -depending on what animal they are slaughtering--they can be clubbed to death, trapped and left to painfully die while a foot has been trapped and the animal even tries to chew off his own leg or they can be raised in a fur farm-filled with disease, never touching the ground and then have electrical probes stuck up their anus to kill them.
France loves their rabbit fur farms-they kill 70 million rabbits a year -and they aren't cruelty free about it.

There is no such thing as cruelty free fur.

(as long as no cruelty was involve in it's manufacture).

I just don't understand this statement at all. Maybe she was joking or being sarcastic?

 

[pinky-a-gogo]

How about we start treating HUMANS BEINGS from around the world better before we try to protect animals. How about we stop female genital mutilation? Human trafficking?

Those issues are also horrible but have nothing to do with the conversation that was started above.

 

[Rue_de_la_Paix]

The environmental issues associated with the raising of animals for food are staggering. Too much to go into here. If you can live with the cruelty, fine. Most people can live with animal cruelty. Sad, but true. But think of this. The amount of water used to raise animals for human consumption (and to raise the grain we feed just them) in the USA alone is enough to fill all of the great lakes every year..or is it very month?. This fresh water is a precious resource that most of the third world (and soon to be here in the USA folks) live without access to. People are dying and have no clean water. Diseased water is right here in the USA now too. This is not just in poor countries, it is spreading. The water and air pollution caused by raising animals for food is beyond mind blowing. And we cut down our precious rain forest every minute to make room for grazing cattle for fast food beef. Less trees, less clean air. The ocean...dying. Fertilizers in our blood stream and in newborn babies. Do you know that most of the grain raised in the USA is to feed animals that we will later kill and eat ourselves? It just goes on and one and gets worse. For every burger we eat the amount of fresh water and grain used to produce just that very few bites of beef (much less the whole cow) is staggering if you saw the charts. We can grow the same amount of grain to make 10,000 loaves of bread, or use that same amount to feed ONE COW. So...no clean water...no clean air....polluted food chain. All so we can blindly and happily eat pork ribs and shrimp and cheese burgers. Get the picture? You say you care about treating human beings better? Time to stop and smell the stinky cow farts! AND by the way, the methane from cow farts really DOES create breaks in the ozone layer. Photos from space show it clearly.

The natives in the Amazon are being killed for their land and cultures wiped out forever. So we can eat a hot dog. The issue goes deep into the economic and political forces around the globe. This is NOT just about feeling sorry for tiny chicken in cages anymore. People are waging war for food and water and world leaders make political decisions that effect the global economy and world safety...decisions based in the food chain and water issue.

And I DO eat meat on occasion. Not often, but I do. I wish I did not eat it, but I admit I give in to a piece of grilled chicken when I smell it on the grill at least once over the summer, and I eat turkey at Thanksgiving. And yes, even the occasional burger. But I also not living with rose colored glasses about the effects it has. And I try my best to avoid meat raised by big agri biz. We all have to start trying at least.

We are not Natives living in the woods for survival. This is now a MAJOR global issue and every time we eat fast food and grocery store meat and fish we add to the problem. That bite of food effects the life of someone 6000 miles away. And tomorrow it will effect your children's life here too.

I am only trying to open some eyes on this issue. The cruelty issue is one we can close our eyes too, and most of us do. The fresh water and food chain issue...well that is a different story.

So if you really want to stop cruelty to humans, stop eating meat too.

 

[pinky-a-gogo]

I don't eat meat.
And yes--we all know about Jell-o, or at least anyone who is conscious about what they put into their mouth knows what is in it.
(Really--does anyone still eat Jell-o that isn't in the hospital)?
Their is "meat" in Lays Potato chips, a lot of processed cheese like Velveeta--which uses enzymes from calves stomachs, altoids-like Jell-o use the gelatin from boiled bones, and many more.....but all besides the point.

The point is that all fur is obtained by cruel methods---

Again, I am not saying wear it or not, that is up to you....but the statement that was made

as long as no cruelty was involve in it's manufacture).

shows the poor woman can never wear a modern fur--even if she can afford it.

 

[pinky-a-gogo]

Sure it does. If you want me to consider your question, you have to include my reasoning for my answer. I think we should treat people around the world better before we allocate resources to treating animals better.

I didn't have a question--well, I guess I did, my question was "Is this lady serious? Was she seriously saying she would wear a new coat but not one that was produced using cruel methods of manufacturing"?

There is no way professional furriers make modern fur coats w/o being cruel to animals.
It can not be done.
There is no reason to debate the horrors of humanity around the world--I agree--evil.

 

[pauline]

This forum is open to the public, whist the administration can stop what's said on here from getting for out of control, not that I am saying it has or will happen
They cannot control what happens in the wider world, so clearly I am protecting the identity of the lady concerned.
So I clear up a few things
Is she serious? Yes,
Does she know what she saying ? Yes
Has she an in knowledge of furs - Yes.
Is it me? NO.
Is it true? Yes to the best of my knowledge.

 

[Rue_de_la_Paix]

Pauline,

I apologize for highjacking your thread and taking it in a different direction. It is always nice to see you here on the VFG forums. We realize it is your friend who is wearing the fur, not you.

I did not mean to seem so aggressive about it, did not mean my comment to insult anyone, (sorry if it did) but I just felt there are more issues to animal rights, fur and food than meets the eye. And I am certainly not an animal rights activist. I do agree that the human rights issue is more important, but we must realize that the 2 issues can no longer be separated in today's global situation. They are intertwined and must be considered together if we are to have any real solutions.

By the way, Pauline, I do think you look great in your new avatar photo.

B

 

[furwise]

Everyones opinions as ugly or as pretty as they might be, are entitled to their own opinions.

My opinion is that no matter how an animal is executed it is very sad to have the loss of life so I promote the wearing of vintage furs or pre-owned furs. For those who wish to wear fur there is a plentiful supply of pre-owned and vintage fur garments to choose from.

 

[pauline]

Many years ago I worked for a bicycle wholesale company whist the metal items we sold for cycles would last a few years or so, I was always shocked to see a large shipping container come just with tyres in and knowing ultimately all the rubber would end up just on the road surface then six months on another container would come in to unload and it is just the same hundred of tyres so there a lot of issues around the world,

There are going to build some house in a field in front of your house which has just been planned with a crop, if we object that great , but fifty years ago they build our house in the corner of the same field and I sure some one will have objected back then to our house.

So no I not offended with any one reply or moving slightly off topic because apart from people different views, nothing is not black and white either it should be never is.

 

[Circa Vintage Clothing]

I agree with Caryn: there is so much vintage fur in the world, much of it neglected and thrown away, so I see no reason for the modern fur trade whilst we have such incredible resources that need protecting.

Fur is one of the most contentious issues that we face in the vintage world - I, personally, do not eat meat, fish or eggs and seek to minimise the pain and suffering that I cause. I appreciate that my small efforts are a drop in the ocean of the pain in this world but I believe in seeking information and making a considered choice. I feel good about my personal choices but I will not comment on your choices, as they're not my concern although I do wish that we were living in a kinder, more considerate and tolerant world.

I also agree with Tiffany in that the fur trade is not, and likely will never be, cruelty free. Perhaps your friend Pauline, is expressing a wish that one day things could be different, or perhaps she appreciates that vintage fur will suffice.

Certainly, as people who have been bought together by a love for vintage fashion, I would expect that anyone here, should they wish to wear fur, would choose the vintage version over a new, modern fur. The animals have long since died, but their original owners appreciated and cared for them, and I like to think that wearing them now expresses a respect for the creature and their suffering, rather than sending them to landfill. I find it hard to justify the further suffering of creatures still living or not yet born.

 

[pauline]

I own several vintage fur items and maybe I will buy some more in the future when funds are available, whist I have not done any real research pre owned fur is the only type that's realistically within my budget so in a way for me and maybe a lot more it is very hypothetically that not a reason not to ask about some thing.

- if an acquaintance did stand in front of me wearing a new fur I would not give them any argument against about buying it or wearing it and if it looked good on them I would say so if it did not suit them I would not comment either.

If it happened to be my size and it was offered to me to try it on I would take that opportunity if it was presented to me .

There are a lot of things in this world which is wrong, and just saying here to many to ignore any is not the answer and at the some time no one can take on all of them and make a difference we have to do what we can in our own way and we each have to make our own choose as to what difference we try can try or make happen.