the complexities of pricing

terrasita

terrasita

Registered Guest
So, I've been thinking about pricing (OK I always think about pricing!) and just wanted to hear a few thoughts about how you price. I am always confused on just how much variation is out there. One dress will be priced at a very high price and the same type of dress by another seller will be low. It seems, however, that the high-priced dress does indeed sell even though it's expensive compared to a similar dress. So, do you generally price an item at what you truly believe it to be worth and wait for someone to buy it who recognizes that? Or do you price it lower to allow the dress to sell more quickly or easier? It seems to me a lot of factors go into the price including how you market the dress, how popular and loyal your customer base is, where you sell the dress, and I suppose how long you can afford to "sit" on inventory and wait for something to sell. It's frustrating to me that the "popular" sites can get at least twice as much as I can for a similar dress because they have the customers. But I suppose this is just business and how it works!

So how do you determine price on your items?
 
It really does depend what you are selling, what venue you are selling in, and if you have people looking.

I sell some of my items in auction formats starting at the lowest amount I will accept and if they do not sell the first time around I raise the price a few dollars, relist them in buy it now formats, and wait if I can for the right buyer to come along.

Some of my items attract buyers and will go high in auction formats. These items I start at a price that is low enough to attract bidders but does not lead the potential bidder to think there is something wrong with the item.

Some items take special buyers who may only pop in every now and then. These items I list in a buy it now format to wait for the special buyer to come along.

As part of my research I check completed listings within the venue I sell to see what they have sold for.

All of this helps me price my items.

Caryn
 
Envying the prices that successful, established businesses can achieve...that way madness lies! When I started selling vintage all those years ago, a friend who had been in the antiques business forever gave me some valuable advice, which can be summed up thus: recognise where you are on the food chain, decide if you're content to be in that spot, and work your business accordingly.

Works for me.

Sarah
 
Very good advice, thank you both! :)

I do frustrate myself looking at what other sellers bring in! I guess you're right, maybe not the best practice. I think I just need to focus on what I have to offer and how I can uniquely stand out. I have been working on my own line of retro-inpsired swimwear too, it gives me something else to bring to the table along with authentic vintage and I enjoy it. :)
 
It is VERY frustrating to look at some sellers' offerings, and see them priced at, and sell for, double or more what you yourself can, at this point in time, realistically hope to get. And, as Sarah says, it's crazy making. But, you don't have to always live at the same point on the food chain. I have been slowly raising my prices, and I have had the best summer this year that I have had in years and years--ever since the heyday of selling vintage on eBay and Ruby Lane many years ago. In the big picture, I'm a pretty low-volume seller, and right now my own private site is inactive (I have a new design for it, but can't seem to find the time to re-build the pages.... but that's another story.) But, for someone in those circumstances, I'm very happy about business right now.

I am pricing things not as high as the "trendy" sellers get for similar items, but a lot higher than I used to price them. Many, many sellers over the years have told me "you can always come down on your price, but it's awfully hard to raise it once you've listed it." Interestingly enough, I'm having a sale in my Etsy shop now, and have had a lot of orders, but last month, I had fewer orders, but a bigger dollar volume.... So, it doesn't seem accurate to think that lower prices will automatically mean a bigger dollar amount in sales.

Just as an example of, I had a 1950s' full-skirt party dress with matching bolero listed on Etsy a few months ago. I always check "comps," and priced the dress about in the middle of the pack. Then I saw a dress come up that was kind of similar to mine, but without the jacket, and it had condition issues. Which mine didn't. And that one was priced a lot higher than mine. So, as an experiment, I upped the price on mine and it sold within a week or so at the higher price. OTH, I've had things I've had to lower the price on for them to sell, but since I had originally priced them higher than I used to, I still made out OK.

But, one still has to be "reasonable," of course! My prices are still not anywhere near as high as many sellers', but I'm selling across the board at higher prices for most things. Not all, of course, but many. The thing is, I can't attribute my increase in business to selling the same number of items for higher pricing. I'm selling more items, for better prices.

That's just my experience. But I feel that if one makes the effort to keep in touch with past customers, keeps trying to improve presentation, and keeps high standards of describing (including full disclosure of flaws), one will be able to climb a few rungs on the food chain!

Believe me, I think most of us can empathize with this dilemma, and it can take a lot of trial and error before you a) figure out where to price your stuff now and b) how to go forward in getting your price points up.
 
Yes..I totally agree with noth Sarah and Anne.

We all deal with the part of the food chain that we are on and we start from the bottom. The more we study the more we learn and the more we learn about what we are offering translates in how we describe our items which in turn allows us to move up on that food chain and sell our items for more money.

It is always very difficult to know how to price items no matter how long you sell in my opinion. On vintage dresses and accessories I still have a lot to learn therefore I really rely on the bottom price I am willing to take and only buy the items if I can afford to hold onto until I get what I want.

On fur coats I have extensive knowledge, repeat clientelle, and know how to advertise well so I am comfortable listing low in an auction format and allowing the bidders to determine the final sale price.

Caryn
 
And I agree with Caryn as well! The thing is, too, that we never, ever stop learning, and really never stop figuring out where we are on the food chain and how to climb higher. It's not a static business, so just when you "think" you have it all figured out, you have to change something!

And so much depends on one's market. On Etsy, I've found I simply cannot write descriptions the same way and in as much detail as I do on my web site. Etsy buyers don't want to have to read copy--so I've condensed my descriptions as much as I feel comfortable with, even though they are not as short as those of many, many sellers. OTH, buyers on my private site have consistently told me they love my descriptions--but they are a different demographic for the most part.

So, figure out who your best customers are and how to reach them, and how to present to them--and determine at what price point they will buy. Then go outside that parameter and look at your other target audiences, and do the same. It's a never-ending process.
 
Thanks again for all the replies! I have learned so much over the last 5 years, but yes, I still have a ton to learn. I do notice how my etsy customers are different than my ebay customers. It's hard though because generally my audience isn't quite what it needs to be to bump up action prices so I rely on buy it now which doesn't always go well! On etsy you are stuck with one price without offers, so that also changes the dynamics. I'd love to sell exclusively on etsy or on my own site, but the traffic just isn't there yet for that.

:)
 
Keep working hard, and it will come. I think many, if not most, of us who have private sites and/or are on Etsy and some of the other venues such as Ruby Lane, Tias, and others started out on eBay. I still sell certain things there, because they get the best prices on eBay.
 
There are two basic ways to price: what it costs you plus margin (which is how most new fashion works) and what the market will bear (which strangely enough, is also how new fashion tends to work).

I like the point about the food chain and knowing where you sit on it. I find that your customers will reward you for supplying the sort of stock they expect from you - if you go outside of that, even if your product is great and well priced, they won't buy from you. For this reason, I don't do a lot of post'65, as the more modern stuff just isn't my bag (baby) and my competitors do it so much better, so generally leave it to them. What they want from Circa is the good stuff, the glamour stuff and the old stuff, which is good because that's what I'm best at and I love it.

That's why different shops, or different market places can work well for sellers: you can tailor your product to your market.

Pricing vintage is an art rather than a science, we're all learning every day and all of us will sell some things for more than they're worth because we don't know enough and we'll also sell other things for less, for the same reason. That's where the fun comes in! You never know when you'll find that treasure that you can get for a good price.

A low price is no guarantee that something will sell quickly: I've learnt that many times. A vintage dealer once told me that if something doesn't sell, she'll take it out of the shop and put a higher price on it when it goes back. It's bizarre logic but apparently it works. I have a lot of stock and like to buy it, so figure the more I sell, the more I can buy....so price my stock cheaper than many of my competitors. But if you price it too low people won't value it. I'm big on respect, I spend hours restoring my frocks so I like my customers to treat them well too.

Nicole
 
We all deal with the part of the food chain that we are on and we start from the bottom.
Click to expand...

In my experience, a lot of new sellers start somewhere up near the top, at least pricing wise. You know em - scanty descriptions, wacky dating and eye-popping prices...:rolleyes:

You can certainly move around on the food chain if you work on your knowledge, your presentation and building up your reputation and customer base. For someone with passion and integrity, the sky's the limit!

Sarah
 
For someone with passion and integrity, the sky's the limit!
Click to expand...


Well said, Sarah!

And, these new sellers may start at the top with pricing, but without good, accurate descriptions, full disclosure, and honest business practices, they will fall down the food chain while we're climbing up! That is not to say that ALL of these sellers have those negative attributes, but in vintage particularly, there seems to be a mindset of it's a "get rich quick" business. Which, as we all know, is a fantasy!

And some of us are perfectly content to reach a point on the food chain and maintain there, due to life's other circumstances. And that is fine, too, of course! Not everybody, me included, needs to reach the top of the heap, or wants/can deal with all that comes with that position.
 
This is a great discussion.

I've been selling on Etsy for approx. 10 months and occasionally sell certain items on eBay. Nicole has a good point about "product specialty" and that's something that I'm starting to consider. Also, at this point I'm a panic seller... if it hasn't sold after a certain period of time I start to panic and lower the price. So some of the comments about pricing are lessons for me to take to heart.

One thing I don't think I saw mentioned was the quality of the photos. Along with the description, this is the only way for your buyer to relate to what you are selling - to get excited about it - to fall in love with it. I try very hard to come up with good images and will spend time studying the images in other shops to see how I react to them. Are they better than what I do? Also your images are an excellent way to brand your shop. I'm not there yet, because I haven't settled on a "look" yet. I think a consistent visual style also helps to create buyer confidence.
 
Yes, this is a really great discussion, big thanks to Terrasita for starting it. So far I only sell on ebay, and that only sporadically, and at a monthly market, but I'm planning to up my game in the near future.

When selling at the market, and the same applies with Fixed Price online sales, if I something sells really quickly, I always think "Damn I should have asked for more!". Which is another thought to make you crazy. As others have said you can only learn and keep learning.

I'm also considering specialisation, so far my main specialisation seems to be 'god I love that!' and hope that means someone else will feel the same!

Pricing is an art, and it's very psychological. It's well known that people assume something has more worth if it has a high price tag.

Ruth
 
I am still fairly new at selling vintage clothing. I am already somewhat educated and educate myself more and more everyday because the members here at VFG have assisted me in learning and redirected me to books and other resources which I really needed.

I was definately guilty of coming here and asking any and all questions first but through a combination of answers and redirection I have been taught that I can learn on my own.

The answers here have been great but the redirection to books has helped me to put the information right at my fingertips.

A few days ago a member of another discussion group asked for help on a bolero. I had just been browsing one of my books and I saw the style she was asking about. I posted the photos along with the dating and she was impressed and thankful. I was so happy that I had the answer for her. :)

I learned how to research archives online from here too. I have sold furs for a long time. I know about the construction, fur types, values, and major furriers but even with my furs now when I see a name I don't recognize I can check the online archives and news to see what I can find out which helps me sell for even more because the more information I can provide makes a buyer more confident in their purchase.

As for images; When I take photos I just make sure to get all angles and close ups of areas that have embellishments, tags, flaws, and sometimes the inside. Photos to me are the easiest part. Photos of all areas allow a buyer to see all of what they are getting.

Learning, describing accurately, mentioning any flaws, and providing as much information as possible leads to positive transactions and combining that with experience leads to knowing the value of items better and to selling for higher prices and making more money.

Caryn
 
As a brand new seller, I've also found pricing to be somewhat of a challenge, as well, Terrasita. Truth be told, sometimes I don't feel "qualified/deserving of" setting a higher price. I think that's just part of being new at something, and I already, in the short time I've been in business, feel more self-assured and more "deserving" of charging more for what I truly know to be a quality, desirable item. Does that make sense?

As for setting the price, well, on the one hand, it's perfectly obvious: I can't price the majority of my items the way a seasoned professional with stellar stock can, for the simple reason that I do not have the same stellar stock! Never mind the traffic and all that... my adorable little wiggle dress just isn't a highly desired Vionnet in perfect condition!

That said, it's also important (IMHO) not to be the rat fink who "undercuts" my colleagues -- selling something that IS on a par with their offerings at an absurdly low price. I might price one of my items far lower than they would (successfully) dare, but I won't price it so low as to undercut.

I use the following guidelines for pricing my items:

1. How much did it cost me?
2. How much time and effort went toward rehabilitating/cleaning/photographing, etc.? How much your own time is worth is a personal question. I tend to undervalue my vintage time, compared with, say, what I'd earn doing medical writing. But if I didn't, the hours would send the prices over-the-top!
3. How much are truly comparable items being sold for (not just offered for, but SOLD for)? I've found most sellers are willing to share their sales prices with you if you explain that you are trying to set a reasonable price for a similar item. Many will explain how they determined their own asking price, which can be very helpful.
4. What would YOU pay for the item without feeling you were "getting the greatest deal of your life" or "being completely ripped off?" Somewhere between the two seems like the perfect price.

In short, I price the items so that I, as a consumer, would feel comfortable paying that amount, while I, the business owner, don't feel I'm taking advantage of customers or giving stuff away and undercutting my colleagues.

When I've asked colleague-friends privately for help with pricing, they nearly always agree with my "gut reaction" price. So I think my crazy "formula" is working most, if not all, of the time.

As far as "finding your niche," I completely agree with what the other posters have written. For me, that does not mean aspiring to being another ultra-high-end seller. There are several of those out there (some of whom I count as friends) and they do a fabulous job at it. It's their niche. I link to them from my own site because I respect and trust them, and certainly want them to continue doing well. And frankly, I don't see them as competition as much as "inspiration."

But you have to go with what and who you are. I've never been a label-conscious person. If I like it I like it, if I don't I don't. The name on the label doesn't change my opinion. Given that, I don't think it would be appropriate for my focus to be "designer/high-end/label name" because it wouldn't be true to who I am. I'm more about fun and affordability.

I am, however, in the position of being able to sell vintage without it being my sole means of paying the mortgage or feeding my children. And of course that takes a lot of the pressure off and allows me to do what I like without worrying about the money, per se. No, I don't want my business to fail, and yes, I have dedicated thousands of hours and not a few tears to it. And no, I cannot afford to lose money over the long run. But knowing I will be OK if it doesn't work out immediately, or sales become slow for a time, is an enormous luxury which, I recognize, is not the case for many sellers.
 
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