the earliest Talon zipper I've ever seen (on a nice suit)

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the earliest Talon zipper I\'ve ever seen (on a nice suit)

OK, I know - I need to get out more. But I've never seen one like this:

<img src="http://archive.noirboudoir.com/uslabels/kerrycrzipp.jpg" width=340>

Usually I see snaps and buttons on things this early, but this has two smooth zips on the jacket and skirt.
This dramatic cotton velvet suit:

<img src="http://archive.noirboudoir.com/uslabels/kerrycricketfull.jpg" width=350>

I'm 5 ft 7 and a half, and this reaches to my feet, even with the skirt starting at my ribs. Now, this won't be for sale, but I have some questions about it.

It's on the tip of my tongue what it's influenced by. The really, really high skirt waist, with a notch both front and back, combined with the crop jacket makes me think of Spanish bull-fighting... what's the style word??

<img src="http://archive.noirboudoir.com/uslabels/kerrycrickettop.jpg">

I'm going to need to have the skirt dry-cleaned, I think, but the jacket... I've heard things about early sequins - is there any way of cleaning this which isn't going to melt them?

Finally, a date - I'm assuming v. late 30s? But more precise thoughts are welcome. Surprisingly, there's no F.O.G.A. label. What do you call this kind of a suit? An evening suit? It's too long to be 'cocktails', right?

Here's the label:
<img src="http://archive.noirboudoir.com/uslabels/kerrycricketlabel.jpg">

'Kerry Cricket, Young American Sportswear' - yes, a St. Louis brand (and I bought it from a St. Louis seller).

Here's the quote from Lizzie's 'Fashion Fundamentals' by Chambers, 1947:

"<i>Protected by the Style Piracy Bureau maintained by the Associated Garment Industries, creative designers have steadily thrived in St. Louis. Among these are Virginia Spear, Grace Durocher, Grace Ashley, Mariam McCoy, and <b>Virginia Grey, originator of Kerry Cricket Dresses</b>. Margot Kopps McClintock, designer for Carlyle Dresses, a St. Louis firm, was well known as a New York designer of junior clothes before her affiliation with the St. Louis house."
</i>

I don't know anything more right now...
 
THAT'S IT. I've been chasing the word around the inside of my skull, and unable to pin it down... Thanks!

The shoulders look even more pronounced when you put this on - I'm now hoping for a 'Joan Crawford party' or something to crop up, then I have an excuse to wear it...

L
 
excellent. my best friend (spanish) just came back from spain and has brought my son a thoroughly non-pc bullfighting colouring book, of all things. lol! so it was sat right in front of me

:USETHUMBUP:
 
It can also be an early 40s dinner suit with those shoulders but the hips are so slim I'd put it 38 - 40. Sequins were a popular trim then as well and zippers were in common use then, too.
I wouldn't clean the jacket at all because they may break the sequins. Air it out and steam it up!
Hollis
 
Thanks Hollis! No, it would be a terrible shame to damage the sequins, as they're absolutely perfect, with nothing missing, at the moment.

The pockets on the skirt are interesting. On either hip, they're a square with a slit diagonally across the middle, if you can tell what I mean.

I just e-mailed the seller to see if there was a provenance for this, and in return she sent me a tantalising pic of the most amazing revival mansion, built 1928, in Carrswold, St. Louis. It's now on the National Historic Buildings register, apparently.
So it's nice to have a thoroughly st. Lousian background for it.

Plotting what shoes would look best with this...

(thanks Carolyn!)
 
I'd go with early 40s on this one. Very cute! There was a trend, in the early zipper era, for dresses that zipped up the front. I've seen ads for them in old Vogues. This is back when they called them "slide fasteners" and other such things. It looks a little too fancy for a dressing gown which would be my other choice for 30s/40s era "dresses" that zip up the front.
Connie
 
Well I did a little looking and came across this nice example of the fancy dress with a zippered bodice.

<img src=http://www.cosmiccatvintage.com/zipdress.jpg>

This comes from a 1940-41 fashion catalog. I have seen zippered dresses though as early as 1937 in Vogue magazine. I can post more examples if you like.

Connie
 
Wow, thanks Connie, that's really lovely, and the bodice in particular is a great parallel.

The sleeves are different however, and among my limited comparisons, are extremely close in length and style to my velvet Mary Muffet suit, which I think Jonathan suggested was 39-40, but also has c. 1940-41 features.

(another difference I've just noted - this has more of a peplum than the Kerry Cricket suit; perhaps just a design difference, but when did peplums really kick in?)

I'm wondering whether the fleur-de-lys pattern was supposed to evoke some kind of French or Old European air too.

The skirt on mine is extremely full - I haven't tried it, but the gores seem almost to add up to a full circle. It's interesting that in these drawn 'models' the skirt drapes along the ground. Although being rayon crepe it's a more fluid and light textile to have acting that way. This, being stiffer, was perhaps designed to end at the feet?

I'd always be interested in more pics, but I'd be making you expend more effort and time. This is fascinating though, thanks!
 
No I wasn't ignoring you. Had to do a little research. I knew I had seen an ad in an old Vogue for Talon and sure enough, here it is:

<img src=http://www.cosmiccatvintage.com/talonad1936.jpg>

This ad goes on for 3 pages extolling the virtues of their "new" Talon fastener. This comes from the Oct. 1, 1936 Vogue. This is the earliest example I've seen of zippers in clothes. I believe they were used in boots/shoes though before this. I love this detail.

<img src=http://www.cosmiccatvintage.com/talonaddetail.jpg>

I saw lots of examples of zippers in dresses from the late 30s / early 40's era, looking for that ad. This one though is closest to your dress. It is from a Spring 1941 catalog.

<img src=http://www.cosmiccatvintage.com/zipdress2.jpg>

Not exact but pretty darn close. Not to take away from your dress but speaking of close, while I was looking for your pictures, I found an illustration of nearly an exact copy of a 30s dress I have up for sale now. The only difference is mine is velvet and the illustration mentions that it is crepe with velvet. I was amazed. Not often you find your exact dress in a 70 year old magazine. How's this for lucky:

<img src=http://www.cosmiccatvintage.com/web-data/Components/dresses/E606040F2.jpg>

<img src=http://www.cosmiccatvintage.com/web-data/Components/dresses/E606040D2.jpg>

<img src=http://www.cosmiccatvintage.com/web-data/Components/dresses/vogueaugust37.jpg>

Connie
 
Wow!! These are amazing! I do think that's the same talon zipper that's in my suit (it's a suit by the way - just jacket and skirt, no top or slip - hence the style differences from the more flowing dresses)

And how amazing to find an illustration of the very same dress that you have - it's a really lovely one!

Thanks for posting them Connie!
:wow:
 
Aha!! guess who??

Give people a season or two to thoroughly rip these off... and before you know it, someone's attending St. Louis society dinners in their version. The zip would be the up-to-date addition, though.

From a review of the Schiap 'Shocking' exhibit:

<i>What I found interesting was the importance of the <b>dinner suit</b> in the exhibit, with many standout examples on display. <b>Most featured jackets that were small and fitted, and boasted opulent embroidery, metallic threads, colored rhinestones, decorative buttons</b>, shown over simply cut, long black dresses.

The dinner suit was actually invented by Elsa Schiaparelli in the early 30's, and she claims that her "first one created turmoil in the fashion world and proved to be the most successful design of my career." The dinner suit was born out of the fact that "theatre, restaurants, and nightclubs became the major sites of fashionability, and they were known to be very photogenic with their face framing attributes. As the museum pointed out, "many of the smartest women wore them to the smartest places where they were invariably targets for every camera."
</i>

<img src="http://archive.noirboudoir.com/uslabels/st%20louis/hb_1974.338.2_1978.288" width=350>


Evening jacket, 1938
Elsa Schiaparelli (French, born Italy, 1890–1973)
Deep magenta rayon crepe embroidered with metallic thread and polychrome sequins with plastic insect buttons
Gift of Mrs. J. R. Keagy, 1974 (1974.338.2)

Dinner Suit, 1937–1938
Elsa Schiaparelli (French, born Italy, 1890–1973)
Green silk crepe and green silk velvet embroidered with metallic thread and red and pink rhinestones with half dome shaped plastic buttons inset with flowers
Gift of Julia B. Henry, 1978 (1978.288.19a–c)
 
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