Two Irenes // Lots of Questions!

N

noir_boudoir

Registered Guest
One's staying with me, the other one will be for sale. I need date help with both, and further advice on a couple of specific queries.

First, <i>Mine</i>.

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<img src="http://gallery.noirboudoir.com/itempics/Irene/irenefront.jpg" width=400>
<p>

Apologies for the completely unsuitable skirt paired with it. The seller of this one failed to disclose a couple of moth nibbles and the fact that the jacket seems to have been friends with some domestic animals.

Having got the hairs off, it's looking in quite good condition.
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<img src="http://gallery.noirboudoir.com/itempics/Irene/ireneback.jpg" width=400><p>


There's only a bit of stiff structuring around the shoulders, but no shoulder pads.
Despite being black, it seems lightweight and perhaps summer/inter-seasonwear.

I love the decorative details, and the fact that the half belt at the front allows you to wear the jacket semi-open, but still fitted.

<p align="center">
<img src="http://gallery.noirboudoir.com/itempics/Irene/ireneopen.jpg" width=400>
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So, the inside is lined with rose pink crepe, the label is a bit mucky, but it has an *extra* label sewn in behind the lapel. Does anyone know what it means??
<img src="http://gallery.noirboudoir.com/itempics/Irene/irenelabel.jpg" width=250>
<img src="http://gallery.noirboudoir.com/itempics/Irene/irenecodelabel.jpg">

It says: <b># 97. 24-06. BLASS. 35</b>
-------------

And the one that'll be for sale.

Now, I'm guessing this is from the other end of the 50s to the black one. It has a plastic zipper with a metal pull, plus bigger shoulder pads than the black jacket. Fully lined skirt.

<img src="http://gallery.noirboudoir.com/itempics/Irene/ireneyellowfull.jpg" width=600>

Now the boxy-but-long shape of this jacket, with the bracelet length sleeves, reminds me of a Nelly de Grab summer suit from 1958:
<img src="http://gallery.noirboudoir.com/itempics/Irene/degrabsuit.jpg" width=250>

And here are some of the details:

<img src="http://gallery.noirboudoir.com/itempics/Irene/ireneyellowskirt.jpg" width=600>

So my questions - help me out with the dates of both?

What on earth do I call the decoration on the yellow suit, apart from clustered pinstripes?

And does anyone have an idea about the funny label on the first?


Thanks for all help, everyone!
:roll:

Lin
 
Two p.s. s

Is it just me, or does the early label look different to the later one?

And... do you think I can risk the black jacket at a dry cleaners? (it has marks on the lining and probably needs some form of cleaning).

L
 
could the "funny label" be a tailor's tag or some type of "lot" number? and is the "extra label" identical? "your irene" is drop dead gorgeous!

that's such a great shade of yellow on the second!

I think you are right about later because that boxier look didn't come til later on. I always associate boxey with the 60s, but by 63ish everything was short versus that elongated silhouette...
 
Yeah, the length of the yellow jacket is telling me pre-1960, somehow, although I'd welcome opinions on this.

It's a shape of jacket that looks rubbish on me, alas, as does the colour. You almost need thin shoulders for this, then it will look more like the de Grab photo shoot profile.

The written label is sewn in fairly securely, so at first I thought it might be original to the original *use* of the jacket. Possibly not the model number, but maybe the customer number?

On the other hand, it's a lot cleaner than the Irene label just a few inches away, so maybe it is the auction lot number?

Oh, I wish I had the skirt...

Looking at them side by side, the later Irene label *is* different to the earlier one.

the shape of the first E is different, and the 'type' is much heavier. The letters are also larger, and the dot on the I is higher. One for the resource, perhaps...

L
 
Now that i am looking at the labels...could the slight difference be that they were stitched by the dressmaker/finishing seamstress and they jsut have natural variation because of the variation of the hand? as in the labels were not machine stitched? (i mean the stitched letters) or they were machine stitched but by a smaller machine than a big converyor belt mass producer but by a person.

I don't know if i am "reading" that yellow correctly, but on my monitor i am seeing screaming bright lemon. but then another photo gives me the impression that it has an undercurrent of mustard.

well, my shoulders are very narrow...so you never know, i may have to watch for it as it might fit me. too bad i am not narrow everywhere though :::sigh:::. so i would probably not be the ideal to wear this cut. i imagine it would probably look best on a tall willowy gal like the model type in the picture.

BTW, id on't really know what to call it other than pinstripes either.
 
Looking at them here, Chris, I think the labels were machine stitched, and that the format just changed almost imperceptably over the years.

'screaming bright lemon' - yup, that's it!:duh:

I've heard yellow is in this year... I hope so...

L
 
That first jacket is quite wonderful - worth having the moth nibbles rewoven to me. I would agree with very early 50s on that one. It's a guess, but that looks like a drycleaners label with the name of the customer.


The yellow is quite striking in a whole other way. Maybe 1959 - 61? Herbert Latimer designed for the Irene label after her death in 1962 - I wonder if this is one of his?

Hollis
 
Yeah, I've kind of bagged the best one for myself, Hollis ( :BAGUSE: )

<i>worth having the moth nibbles rewoven to me</i>

Yes, I was just thinking about that, I really think I'll look into it. The one noticable one is by the pocket, and worth treating. The second is on the collar, and might not be worth it.

The yellow suit isn't for everyone, but could really work on the right person.

The type of finish on the yellow suit (lining, buttons, fabric) is similar to the earlier one. One of the things that made me think this might be <i>Irene</i>-Irene is the use of the pinstripe patterning...

Open question, that one.

L
 
She did use Pola Stout Woolens, which are very nifty. And she was adept at using the pattern of the fabric for visual interest. I just looked in the one book I have that covers her and there is a bright yellow coat from the early 60s, so the color was in her palette.

On the jacket - does the stripe just end, or is that a seamed on piece? An are the stripes woven in on the pocket flaps?

If it's all woven to this effect, rather than seamed, it's a very high quality fabric.

Hollis
 
Just inspected and alas, the stripes are seamed on...
:sniff:

What I do like about the yellow jacket, though, is that the top three buttonholes are bound, whereas the bottom one is hidden in the seam boundary, so as not to show up when unfastened.

Those pocket flaps are <i>faux</i> - no pockets at all in either skirt or jacket.

If it weren't for the colour and cut, I'd put the date of these much closer together, since the fabrics and construction are so similar. But I guess a c. 1960 stab would be best?

The skirt has hanging loops of a type I've never seen before - ribbons sewn <i>across</i> the 'corners' of the skirt, as it were, rather than vertically hanging loops.

The fact that there's no label in the yellow skirt makes me even more melancholy about the anonymous fate of the earlier jacket's mate...

That's interesting about the yellow coat, btw, thanks for looking that up!
L
 
"seamed" is still a lot higher quality than a lot of today's stuff.

I never understood faux pockets. yeah, i get it, it gives the visual look of pockets, but if i were designing clothes, i wouldn't bother with them. I had a really cute pink trench from the 70s that had that superfluous THIRD faux pocket...
 
Well, I definitely see the difference in the labels. Tomorrow I'm going to compare them to my label, with is about 1960-1.
 
Oh, that'll be interesting - it took me ages to notice, and then I could only really tell when I put them side-by-side.

I've noticed that the other Irene labels around - on 40s-mid-fifties suits- have that thinner type. Most of the 'for dept store x' labels are of *that* type.

I've got a better shot somewhere, hang on...

<img src="http://gallery.noirboudoir.com/itempics/Irene/ireneyellowlabelnew.jpg">

Here y'are!

L
 
Irene and Doris

OK, I thought this was interesting.

I remember watching 'Midnight Lace' yonks ago with my mother (possibly part of her admirable "Doris Day was actually good! look!" daughter education programme, see also 'The Man Who Knew Too Much' )

Anyway, I was just checking the dates that Irene designed for MGM on <em>imdb</em> (I hadn't realised before that she worked in tandem with Helen Rose) and she returned to film costumes for only 2-3 films a couple of years before her death.

She did two Doris Day films, and 'Midnight Lace' was released in 1960, so probably prepared 1959.

The shots of DD's outfits provide interesting parallels for Irene's ready-to-wear of this period:

<img src="http://gallery.noirboudoir.com/itempics/Irene/midnightlace1.jpg">

Without the fur, I think this is comparable to the yellow one.

and
<img src="http://gallery.noirboudoir.com/itempics/Irene/midnightlace2.jpg">

<img src="http://gallery.noirboudoir.com/itempics/Irene/midnightlace3.jpg">

Now by the following year, for the film 'Lover Come Back' (probably bang on 1960) the line changes:

<img src="http://gallery.noirboudoir.com/itempics/Irene/lovercomeback.jpg">

I thought this was a good comparison... now to watch that film again - it was a good cross between 'Gaslight' and 'Dial M for Murder' and shows a darker side to Doris. Recommended!

Lin
 
Lin, That 'funny' label in the first Irene looks like a museum acquisition number. Blass would be the name of the donor, and the other numbers would reference the year, that it was donation/acquisition x in that year, and that this jacket was # whatever in that acquisition. Does that make sense? I interned in the costume dept of a museum in college, and this is the type of tag they used.
 
Hi!

Thanks for posting - you've had a great Irene up recently too? ;)

So you actually recognise the *form* of the tag as well as the general 'code-ishness' of it?

It's sewn on at both ends, and is now fraying a bit...

You know, Bret of Main off 5th has also been advising on this, and saying that he thinks it's a museum accession number too, so I find it interesting that you've independently had the same thought.

He thinks the 'Blass' name is suggestive, and that it could possibly have come from the designer's reference archive. It could have been deaccessioned later because of the damage and lack of a skirt.

If it's a museum tag, that would explain why it's so new compared to the rest of the interior, which hasn't been drycleaned in living memory...

We would have to take (?) '97' as the accession year <i>from</i> the Blass archives/donor, and suppose that it has since been deaccessioned, <i>after</i> Blass' death in 2002, when it wouldn't matter to get rid of his donation.

He willed his collection to the University of Indiana, but that doesn't mean earlier donations didn't go elsewhere.

The <b>big spanner</b> in the works here, though, is that the seller was in Iowa, and told me that the jacket came from an estate sale.

I'm going to ask for the name of the estate, but I have a strong suspicion that the answer will be something like 'Mrs. Blass, sedentary resident of Des Moines since 1932'.
:sniff:

It's intriguing though, and you never know where the tangled threads of provenance could run through nearly 50 years...

Do keep chipping in, it's interesting to hear from you!

Lin
 
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