Two vintage Stetson hats....formerly in a museum?

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DanburyHatter

Registered Guest
Hi,

I have just acquired two vintage Stetson hats from the same seller. She said that she got them from an old costume shop in northern Wisconsin that went out of business. Curiously, on the lining of both, in indelible ink, are the words Crystal Theatre, followed by a number combination. As you can see in the image, this one has 2003.29.81. The other one reads 2010.20.01. Whenever I have seen a string of numbers expressed that way, it has been a museum collection accession number. I have tried to research that theatre, but there are plenty with the same name, so nothing has turned up.

I will post images of the hats in coming days, after a busy weekend coming up.

If anyone has any info about that theatre, or a museum where the hats may have been housed for a while, I would be very glad to hear. For right now, this is quite a mystery. What adds to it is that the other hat looks very much like the missing few Stetson-brand hats used for Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. Most were Herbert Johnson creations, but Stetson had a few in the production of the movie that have disappeared over the course of almost 40 years.

Screenshot2023041723.jpg
 
Retail Costume shops (rental shops and custom build) often purchase old stock from theatres. Theatres usually keep things a long time, but often do sell off items to free up storage space.

So these hats could be both - Crystal Theatre stock that was sold to a costume rental company ( perfect for your rental Indiana Jones look) and then sold to your seller. I agree that isn't a Museum accession number. They wouldn't write it in ink on the lining (I hope!)
 
pastperfect2 said:
Retail Costume shops (rental shops and custom build) often purchase old stock from theatres. Theatres usually keep things a long time, but often do sell off items to free up storage space.

So these hats could be both - Crystal Theatre stock that was sold to a costume rental company ( perfect for your rental Indiana Jones look) and then sold to your seller. I agree that isn't a Museum accession number. They wouldn't write it in ink on the lining (I hope!)
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Thanks for that....which leads to another question: Do theatres sometimes acquire costume items from movie studios, after filming of a movie has been completed?
 
Sure-any source is a good source! It would depend on where the film crew sourced the item- was it made or purchased for the film or was it rented.
 
pastperfect2 said:
Sure-any source is a good source! It would depend on where the film crew sourced the item- was it made or purchased for the film or was it rented.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Things are making a lot more sense.

With all of the Indiana Jones movies, there were always a lot of hats floating around. Not just for Harrison Ford, but also for the stunt men. Interestingly, when you watch a film like Temple of Doom closely, you can notice from scene to scene that quite a number of different hats were used that were not even all of the exact same model. Crown heights vary, colors are subtly different, ribbon widths are not all the same, etc. The costume department is responsible for the claim that all the hats were sourced from Herbert Johnson. But, there is some evidence that a few Stetson hats were also in the production in a few scenes. Among all of the hats used, only a few have re-emerged over the years and none of them have been Stetsons. They had to have gone somewhere. I am wondering about the one I have, because it looks so close to what appears in certain scenes.

Photos to come, in a few days....
 
Looking forward to seeing the hats.

You said "But, there is some evidence that a few Stetson hats were also in the production in a few scenes".

Not to burst anyone's bubble here. Just curious, is the evidence a written source? If a costumer or wardrobe person picked up some Stetson hats to be worn by the stunt men, stand ins, etc., they would have been models made in large numbers by Stetson. Unless the hat you have has some identifying marks from the studio, I cannot see any way to establish that your hats are the ones used in the film. Just the same model made by Stetson. And they made a lot of them.
 
Rue_de_la_Paix said:
Looking forward to seeing the hats.

You said "But, there is some evidence that a few Stetson hats were also in the production in a few scenes".

Not to burst anyone's bubble here. Just curious, is the evidence a written source? If a costumer or wardrobe person picked up some Stetson hats to be worn by the stunt men, stand ins, etc., they would have been models made in large numbers by Stetson. Unless the hat you have has some identifying marks from the studio, I cannot see any way to establish that your hats are the ones used in the film. Just the same model made by Stetson. And they made a lot of them.
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The Herbert Johnson company had the agreement with the studio to produce hats for the films. However, the company made a lot of changes for Temple of Doom. Different felt, different block, etc. The result was that the hats for that film ended up looking significantly different than the ones in Raiders of the Lost Ark. Meanwhile, Stetson was trying to get a foot in the door with the studio. It's my understanding that they sent in a few samples to contrast with the Herbert Johnson hats. Stetson did win a contract to supply replica Indiana Jones hats and subsequently made them in two different levels of quality. Outside of the replicas, prior to Temple of Doom, Stetson had a model of hat that they started calling the "Temple" after the movie.

One of the hats that I have does not say "Temple" on it, so did not come afterward. But neither does it have a different model name, nor does it even say "Sovereign", which was sometimes used interchangeably by Stetson to denote either a level of quality or a model name. Imterestingly, this hat is of unusually high quality for a Stetson of that era. Early 1980s Stetsons are quite maligned for having lower quality. This one is amazing. I have been doing extensive research and have yet to find one identical to it. Will anything ever be 'proven'? Maybe not. But the pursuit itself is fun.
 
DanburyHatter said:
Will anything ever be 'proven'? Maybe not. But the pursuit itself is fun.
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I agree with that 100%!!!!

I am acquainted with Deborah Nadoolman, who designed the original hat for "Raiders" and I know she had the model sent to England to be made by Herbert Johnson. I wonder if she might be able to shed some light on this, although it seems more a wardrobe question than a costume designer's area. Not sure what to even ask her. She did not work on the second film and I admit I have never seen it!

I agree about the quality of the later era Stetsons, 1970s and even prior to that. Some hat snobs will not even look at Stetsons made after 1960! By the 1980s it seemed all over as far as what the hats used to be. Still good quality but just not the "same" as they used to be. Then again, what is?
 
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Well, no need to take this any farther. I took some test photos a few minutes ago and what I found is that the crown of the hat is much too short. It's true that the crown of the Temple of Doom hats was shorter than the Raiders hats, but this is quite a lot shorter yet. It's just not even close.

It's a really nice, high-quality hat, but I will probably end up selling it. I have a rather long face and the lower crown looks terrible on me. It looks almost like a toy sitting on my head. helloemotiflagemoti

Photos of hats by themselves can definitely be deceiving. There's no substitute for actually seeing them on someone's head to get the true perspective.

I think I'll look for a hat with about a 6" crown....
 
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