Unknown antique cloak maker

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Amaranthine

Registered Guest
I have recently bought the most amazing cloak dated 1870 by the card label sewn into it.
It is astonishing and I would really like to research t but have no idea where to start on something of this age. I am not even sure if the label is the maker or the person it was made for. Can anybody help me please, or direct me to where I can find something out? Thank you
 
Hi Amaranthine, and welcome to the forums.

Your photo isn't showing - if you read this thread, it contains useful info about how to get best results from asking questions, and a link to instructions about posting photos.

A good start is if you can post clear and in focus pics of the cloak (preferably being worn by a person or mannequin) and the labels, and tell us about the fabric, closures and detailing.
 
Amaranthine said:
I have recently bought the most amazing cloak dated 1870 by the card label sewn into it.
It is astonishing and I would really like to research t but have no idea where to start on something of this age. I am not even sure if the label is the maker or the person it was made for. Can anybody h
Amaranthine said:
I have recently bought the most amazing cloak dated 1870 by the card label sewn into it.
It is astonishing and I would really like to research t but have no idea where to start on something of this age. I am not even sure if the label is the maker or the person it was made for. Can anybody help me please, or direct me to where I can find something out? Thank you
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I've tried to insert a photo but it hasn't worked, apologies. The label says M. Debrausse, with the number 2631 and the date is 23rd June 1870, this is all hand written on card in beautiful pen and ink French.
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Circa Vintage said:
Hi Amaranthine, and welcome to the forums.

Your photo isn't showing - if you read this thread, it contains useful info about how to get best results from asking questions, and a link to instructions about posting photos.

A good start is if you can post clear and in focus pics of the cloak (preferably being worn by a person or mannequin) and the labels, and tell us about the fabric, closures and detailing.
Click to expand...
Okay, thank you. My photo is too large. I will fiddle and come back later.
 
Hello, the cloak is red felt, cream silk lined and is embellished with beautiful black braid and I think, jet beading. It has a black lace hood/collar which has a thin silk velvet cord that are finished with two small hand made tassels . It closes with a thicker version of the velvet cord which finishes in two rather magnificent tassels. There is a fringe all round the bottom made from the same velvet cord.
 

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Striking cloak - do you have any clearer in focus pics of the card and the braidwork? It's impressive but from these it's hard to tell age, as it could be a costume piece. As lovely as it is to find a card with a date in it, it's unusual and not necessarily correct: it's best to appraise according to the clues, I find.

I can't read the card but it does look old so it may be what it says. Have you tried googling for the name on it? It could also help if you tell us the location that you found it (country eg, France).
 
This piece reminds me very much of an opera cloak I had once which dated to about 1900.
Mine was a soft dove grey colour though, not this amazing vibrant shade of red.

It makes me think of Spain and flamenco with the colouring and the detailing.

Beautiful piece!

I forgot to add that mine was a wool melton cloth.
 
Hello,

Very interesting and quite striking looking. From far away it has a look of a fine dressmaker item, but the close ups of the trimming is not of a couture quality and is rather rough looking. This leads me to agree that it might be a costume piece, or possibly was embellished later than the cape itself. When you say it is made of red felt, are you sure it is felt? Can you be more specific as to the fabric? Is it possibly a wool flannel or other wool with a flat finish? Felt would be a very unusual fabric for a dressy cape, and again would lead me to think it is a costume and made for the stage. Of course, it would be an antique costume garment.

It is, I agree, very interesting.
 
Rue_de_la_Paix said:
Hello,

Very interesting and quite striking looking. From far away it has a look of a fine dressmaker item, but the close ups of the trimming is not of a couture quality and is rather rough looking. This leads me to agree that it might be a costume piece, or possibly was embellished later than the cape itself. When you say it is made of red felt, are you sure it is felt? Can you be more specific as to the fabric? Is it possibly a wool flannel or other wool with a flat finish? Felt would be a very unusual fabric for a dressy cape, and again would lead me to think it is a costume and made for the stage. Of course, it would be an antique costume garment.

It is, I agree, very interesting.
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Hello, thanks for your comments. I am not sure it is felt, it does actually feel much softer and more pliable than say, old military uniforms although the colour really reminds me of them. I have attached some more close ups which I hope are clearer. In life, the trimming seems beautifully done, although I have to say, I am not familiar with couture trimming. (Please note the apparent fading of the colour is a trick of the light/camera, it is a true vibrant red.)
 

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Hi,

Those are great photos and should help those who chime in with any information. The fabric looks to be a fine quality wool flannel. This is not the same "flannel" we see today which is used for pajamas and lounging robes. It was an entirely different creature!

There is a De Brousse theatre in France, but I have no idea is that is any connection. If it was used for a theatre, the name could refer to the theatre, the character in the play who wore it, or even the composer of the play or opera. It has a very Spanish or Italian Renaissance feel to the designs. I love it whatever it is!
 
Amaranthine said:
Hello, the cloak is red felt, cream silk lined and is embellished with beautiful black braid and I think, jet beading. It has a black lace hood/collar which has a thin silk velvet cord that are finished with two small hand made tassels . It closes with a thicker version of the velvet cord which finishes in two rather magnificent tassels. There is a fringe all round the bottom made from the same velvet cord.
Click to expand...

H
Circa Vintage said:
Striking cloak - do you have any clearer in focus pics of the card and the braidwork? It's impressive but from these it's hard to tell age, as it could be a costume piece. As lovely as it is to find a card with a date in it, it's unusual and not necessarily correct: it's best to appraise according to the clues, I find.

I can't read the card but it does look old so it may be what it says. Have you tried googling for the name on it? It could also help if you tell us the location that you found it (country eg, France).
Click to expand...

Hello, and thanks for your input. I found it in the UK and was told it was from Russia although the label is in French and the name is French, I am convinced the label is genuine, the thread used to sew it on is old, the writing is penned, the ink has faded to a brown. I've attached some more photos below which I hope are clearer. I have Googled but with no luck. I think the label is probably the customer's name rather than the maker. But I am not sure of anything really.
 
Rue_de_la_Paix said:
Hi,

Those are great photos and should help those who chime in with any information. The fabric looks to be a fine quality wool flannel. This is not the same "flannel" we see today which is used for pajamas and lounging robes. It was an entirely different creature!

There is a De Brousse theatre in France, but I have no idea is that is any connection. If it was used for a theatre, the name could refer to the theatre, the character in the play who wore it, or even the composer of the play or opera. It has a very Spanish or Italian Renaissance feel to the designs. I love it whatever it is!
Click to expand...
Thank you, I love it too :o)
 
Thank you for the extra photos - I agree that the card is old. It could be associated with the order when it was made, and describe the customer's name and the date (28th March, 1890). 1890 is a much more likely date than 1870.

These cards were sometimes attached during the manufacturing process - the date may be the date for it to be ready - but their presence usually indicates that the garment has not been worn, as they are visible and easily removed. Your cloak, or rather the tassels, show signs of wear.

There are other reasons why a card like this could be applied though, so it's best not to draw conclusions until more information comes to light: as Barbara said, if it is a costume piece, it could relate to the actor or the role, but dates are unusual on costumes.

The card looks like it's sitting in a string support: have you tried removing it to see if there is anything inside or on the reverse side? It's not attached the way that dressmakers usually sew cards on, but if the fabric is especially thick they may have used other methods.

The style and materials look like they could be 1890s but I'd want to see the stitching and know more: things that that would be clear when you hold it in your hand, but are hard to tell from photos. On the available evidence I agree that it is probably a beautiful evening cloak from 1890.
 
poppysvintageclothing said:
This piece reminds me very much of an opera cloak I had once which dated to about 1900.
Mine was a soft dove grey colour though, not this amazing vibrant shade of red.

It makes me think of Spain and flamenco with the colouring and the detailing.

Beautiful piece!

I forgot to add that mine was a wool melton cloth.
Click to expand...
Jonathan said:
I agree the date is probably 1890 not 1870 as that is the European way of writing a nine if it were a seven there would be a slash through it.
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Jonathan said:
I agree the date is probably 1890 not 1870 as that is the European way of writing a nine if it were a seven there would be a slash through it.
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Yes, I only remembered that 7 thingy later, it is 1890. It is very Spanish looking with the black lace hood. I absolutely love it. Thanks for all your contributions :o) very nice to be among like minded people who might possibly understand the impulse to bury your face in a box of old silk chiffon pieces or well up at a square of pre-revolutionary French embroidered brocade.
 
Hello again,
Out of interest, a quick update on the cloak. I took it to the city museum where I had an amazing time in the research department looking at all their wonderful resources including original 18th century fashion plates. Their experts dated the cloak to 1820 both by the card and the style. They confirm that the hood of hand made lace, tassels and fringing, also all hand made, are later additions and that it would originally had a small collar. Thanks again for all your contributions.
 
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