Vicuna?

[Sheila Dawson]

I have a coat that was from Neusteters of Denver that has Neusteters Vicuna, could this be 100% vicuna, or a blend? The only other label is a blue union label thanks. I've added a couple of close ups of the cloth inside and outside. It seems to be a coat that was well loved (worn). The label may have become detached, and was reattached by the previous owner. I purchased this from the daughter of the original owner. She was a socialite back in the day Mrs. Jack Mann Williams aka Precious. The selling of vicuna cloth is illegal in California, but I believe it's okay in Arizona since as example, python purses are available for sell here, but not California. California law states " It is illegal to sell/possess the dead body, or any part or product thereof, of any polar bear, leopard, ocelot, tiger, cheetah, jaguar, sable antelope, wolf (Canis lupus), zebra, whale, cobra, python, sea turtle, colobus monkey, kangaroo, vicuna, sea otter, free-roaming feral horse, dolphin or porpoise (Delphinidae), Spanish lynx, elephant, alligator, or crocodile". So selling those vintage 50s alligator shoes is now illegal in California. Since this coat was made in the 60s, as long as I ban California buyers I might be okay

 

[themerchantsofvintage]

Lovely coat. If it is vicuna, I believe it is illegal to sell now. It is also hard to say if it is genuine - I doubt even a fibre burn test would be conclusive. Others may know more.

I'm concerned about how the label has been sewn on the coat. Vicuna was very expensive and could only be afforded by those who shopped at high end stores and a high end store would have sewn in the label neatly and expertly - unlike the one that appears on your coat.

Look forward to what others have to say.

 

[themerchantsofvintage]

Hello, I see you have edited your initial reply. In order for us to know that there has been a response to any thread, you would need to respond to the thread at the bottom of the page - this brings a thread to the top of the "latest" and people will see it. Hopefully, others will way in on the regulations regarding vicuna.

 

[retro ruth]

You may with to see my reply to this other thread regarding Vicuna.

http://forums.vintagefashionguild.org/threads/oxxford-clothes-vicuna.58835/#post-587164

I'm not overly familiar with USA endangered species laws. However from what I do know, the likelihood is you can't sell any CITES Appendix 1 animal product (which is what Vicuna is), with only occasional and unusual exceptions.

 

[furwise]

Hi there, The label does indicate that your coat is Vicuña and it looks like Vicuña so without touching it I would be inclined to believe it is 100% Vicuña. If it were something else or a blend it would have another another name something like Vicunoor if it were a blend.

Being I live in the US I only review US laws but I can offer some additional information besides what has been shared already regarding the trade of within the US, importing, and exporting.

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service reclassified vicuña in Argentina, Bolivia, Chile, and Peru from endangered to threatened under the Endangered Species Act. All other populations remain endangered.
Since 2002 the United States has allowed import or export of vicuña fiber and fiber products without needing a threatened species permit when certain requirements have been met.

Within the US the states of California, Michigan and Delaware have laws that prohibit the sale of Vicuna.

I will provide a link below with information regarding the reclassification, importing, and exporting. Beyond that I would recommend checking with your local fish and wildlife management authority regarding the trade of being there are restrictions and prohibitions.

Also if you planned to by chance offer for sale in an online venue be sure to check the venue's animal or wildlife prohibited list to make sure you will be in compliance with what their venue allows or does not allow.

http://www.fws.gov/le/public-bulletin-vicuna-fiber.html

 

[Sheila Dawson]

Thank you everyone for your help. I think I'll keep this, since it's a very nice coat and very soft.

 

[The Vintage Vendeuse]

Alrighty, I'm going to throw my two cents in here.

The US Fish & Wildlife Service law (and CITES) is in reference to international trade in vicuna fiber and fiber products, ie: import/export. It does not apply to sale within the US.
The California law cited states "to possess with intent to sell, or to sell within the state, the dead body, or any part or product thereof ". This specifically refers to parts/products of the dead animal body, such as pelts. Vicuna wool is generally shorn from a live animal. Harvesting pelts requires killing the animal, shearing does not. Vicunas are shorn every 2-3 years since they have very slow-growing fur. I did, however, read of an instance where poachers slaughtered vicunas and stripped them of their pelts, intending to shear the wool from the pelts.
IMHO, you'd be safe to sell within the USA.

 

[furwise]

You see that's where it gets tricky and why it is so important to contact US Fish & Wildlife about species that may be listed under the endangered species act.

The endangered species act says it's unlawful to sell or offer for sale in interstate or foreign commerce any endangered or threatened wildlife, including parts or products.
There are some exceptions but you have to provide burden of proof showing the product is pre-act, antique, or one of the species that were reclassified or exempt.

The penal code specifically for California says any part or product of is prohibited from being imported or sold within the state and you also have to adhere to the information within the endangered species act because some Vicuna species are still listed as being endangered and the endangered species act prohibits sales in insterstate and/or import.


I think this is a download that has the information I provided above;

 

[retro ruth]

Alrighty, I'm going to throw my two cents in here.

The US Fish & Wildlife Service law (and CITES) is in reference to international trade in vicuna fiber and fiber products, ie: import/export. It does not apply to sale within the US.
The California law cited states "to possess with intent to sell, or to sell within the state, the dead body, or any part or product thereof ". This specifically refers to parts/products of the dead animal body, such as pelts. Vicuna wool is generally shorn from a live animal. Harvesting pelts requires killing the animal, shearing does not. Vicunas are shorn every 2-3 years since they have very slow-growing fur. I did, however, read of an instance where poachers slaughtered vicunas and stripped them of their pelts, intending to shear the wool from the pelts.
IMHO, you'd be safe to sell within the USA.

You are quite correct that CITES rules apply only to international trade. However all countries that are signed up to CITES have domestic laws that are at least as strict as CITES regarding sales within the country, and in many cases the country's own laws are stricter than CITES. Therefore if CITES rules forbid or control trade, you can be assured that domestic laws will do the same, or possibly more.

CITES rules (and therefore domestic laws) do sometimes provide for sales of items where the item predates the CITES convention (1973). However as per Caryn's information, ESA which applies to domestic US interstate sales, generally only allows for sales of antiques that are over 100 years old.

The only possibility is that, as a pre-Act item but not an antique, these can sometimes be sold within state boundaries, as ESA doesn't apply there. However that depends on the state laws, and therefore as Caryn says, the OP is best contacting US Fish & Wildlife to find out what rules apply within her state. There is also the question of proof of the age of the item, eg by having the original dated receipt or some other provenance, which isn't always possible.

Vicuna were often hunted for their fur, which the main reason the species became so endangered. More recently certain managed populations have been harvested by shearing, and this is why, for these specific populations only, their status for trade was downgraded from CITES Appendix I to CITES Appendix II, with a corresponding change in status in the USA Endangered Species Act. Trade of this CITES Appendix II wool is still strictly controlled, and that change of status anyway does not apply to this coat. It is impossible to know how the fur of this particular coat was harvested.

 

[The Vintage Vendeuse]

Thank you Furwise and Leonardo, you are both fountains of important info! I spent hours searching on this topic and expressed an opinion based on info available on the web from government agencies. Unfortunately, not all rules and regs are available on the internet, or easily interpreted, though they may be in place and enforced. As you've suggested, it's best to call the governing body and ask.