Another dress questions about repair and satin

[Melonie]

I got this great Fred Perlberg dress yesterday. She is missing a few buttons. There is no extra fabric in hem to try and make replacements so I was given suggestion to rearrange them for good spacing. I was thinking I could put a blush colored velvet ribbon very narrow or something similar, to cover the needles holes where they were attached and then reattach. What do you guys think? She also has one small stain about the size of a nickel. I have read and read and read about Satin.. but still do not know how to go about figuring out what kind it is... sigh. The label matches a dress dated 40's in the label resource. Is there a way to tell by date of dress what kind it is, or is it just a you have to know to know thing. Is is a fairly thick satin and very very shiny. I am concerned about ruining it trying to get stain out. Last thing, the hem on this is very very narrow like 1/4 inch. Do you think it was altered. My mannequin is just over 6 foot and it is still almost to the floor on her or was this made to brush the ground?

 

[retro ruth]

I have read and read and read about Satin.. but still do not know how to go about figuring out what kind it is... sigh.

Have you ever done a burn test? That will help you determine what fibre the satin is made of, eg it might silk, or rayon, or possibly something else. You will need to cut a small strip from the inside, eg from inside a seam, to do a burn test. You can read about burn tests here: https://vintagefashionguild.org/determining-fiber

 

[Midge]

Yes, a burn test will help, and determining fibre will also help in deciding how to clean it.

Maybe the seam was let out, though I'm sure it was supposed to be a long evening dress, it would probably not have been meant to brush the floor... no traces of another seam that was let out?

 

[Avantbo]

I got this great Fred Perlberg dress yesterday. She is missing a few buttons. There is no extra fabric in hem to try and make replacements so I was given suggestion to rearrange them for good spacing. I was thinking I could put a blush colored velvet ribbon very narrow or something similar, to cover the needles holes where they were attached and then reattach. What do you guys think?

Hi

You could or search Etsy for replacement buttons or make your own with same colour Satin keeping a sympathetic replacement/ repairs to a minimum.

 

[retro ruth]

As you say, rearranging the buttons leaves you the issue of the stitch holes. How bad are the stitch holes? I don't think trying to cover those holes with a ribbon would work very well.

It looks as though there were originally 8 buttons, and you only have 6? The only other suggestion I can think of, is to keep every other button in place, so you have 4. That way you only have to move one button, and you are using the original positions, and not doing any further damage to the dress by sewing the buttons in different places. The two spares can remain with the dress.

Or you can try and source a similar satin, as Avantbo suggests, and make new buttons. Is there really no spare fabric inside to make new buttons?

 

[Melonie]

The only extra fabric is on the inside of the sash. The hem is just turned over basically. The seams are typical 5/8. But the inside of the sash has enough for two buttons.. it however has no sewing on edge, will it ravel at all?

 

[Vintagiality]

I would try to find the same color satin at the fabric store and try making the extra buttons. I was only seeing one missing but it sounds like you are missing two. Is that right? What I usually do if it’s just one is to move the top button to the missing spot and replace the top with a larger period correct button or even a brooch as an accent piece always disclosing that in the description.
Depending on the size you might even be able to do that with two buttons

 

[Rue_de_la_Paix]

I am no help with repair advice. From my experience with these type and era dresses, the satin is what was called "slipper" satin which was used for evening wear and formal and was usually rayon when it was not silk (which I doubt this is). I might date it to the late 1940s, that period of American fashion when many dresses had a kind of vague styling.....some remains of the earlier WWII 40s look but not quite yet New Look late 40s early 50s styling.

 

[Vintagiality]

And as far as the stain is concerned, what type of stain is it? Do you have a photo of it? Where is it on the dress? What is the actual fabric made of (as in what fiber, not the weave)? For me, all of these are factors in deciding how to go about it. Determining the fiber in order to decide what would be best to clean it with is very important. As Barbara said, this is most likely rayon.
Maggie @denisebrain has a wonderful article about cleaning stains from vintage garments

https://www.denisebrain.com/vintage-denisebrain/2018/1/20/care-of-vintage-stain-removal-tips

 

[pastperfect2]

I agree that it's most likely rayon, but a burn test should do the trick. I would not attempt to spot clean as satin is the most unforgiving texture and it will leave tide marks that are also hard to remove. A commercial dry cleaner may be able to help, but they will charge quite a bit for a formal gown. Get an estimate first!

I have also done the jeweled vintage rhinestone button in the top to replace a missing fabric button. The hem appears fine to me. If it has been let down, you would see the old fold line from the previous hem in the satin.

 

[denisebrain]

I would call it duchesse satin https://vintagefashionguild.org/fabric-resource/duchesse-satin and believe it would be rayon or acetate. I too think it dates from the late 1940s. It could have been worn by a bridesmaid. On the buttons, lots of good thoughts above! I personally would replace them all with a set of rhinestone buttons, but I also like the one different one at the top idea.

I agree with Hollis on the stain. I'm afraid it would be tricky to remove at home without making the problem worse. However I learned here in the forums of a way to lessen those water ring marks that you can get when trying to remove a stain. (The technique is on the page that Victoria linked to.)

 

[Melonie]

Thank you guys for everything!!! Is there any chance this dress would have been worn with a crinoline? I still cannot get over how long it is. I am 5'6" and it would drag the ground on me, and not just a little.. like I would be stepping on it...or did they just wear very high heels back then?

 

[Rue_de_la_Paix]

Ahhh.....the old debate about "Duchesse" versus "Slipper" satin! I even recall my mother discussing this when I was a little girl. I see websites where they use the term interchangeably, even going so far as to say they are names for the same fabric. But I beg to differ on that one, with a smile.

It may be a case of vintage versus modern fabrics. Maybe the new fabrics now look and feel the same and I have not handled any newly made satin fabrics in a long time. But if you take a piece of antique or very vintage Duchesse satin and place it next to Slipper satin, you will find a subtle yet distinct difference. Duchesse is a little thicker and denser, has more structure (for lack of a better term at the moment), it can literally stand up on its own, creating a stiffer more constructed look to the final garment. Slipper satin is a bit more supple, having more drape to it. I guess I just feel from the photos this is slipper satin.

But calling it Duchesse is not really a stretch, they are very similar.