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1940s or 1950s fabric?

Discussion in 'PUBLIC Vintage Fashion - Ask Questions Get Answers' started by awaywiffairies, Aug 26, 2009.

  1. Linn

    Linn Trade Member

    I am not familiar with cloqué, Claire.

    Sarah, I don't think the view you have shown is the selvage. The selvage is the edge of the fabric that is on the side of the roll. It often has printing on it. On some wovens it is fringed so it will not unravel. It appears to be a print - not sure if it's a screen print or a hand print but the print is not woven through.

    Karin - maybe you can take the waist in if it fits through the bust. It really is a great dress!
    Linn
     
  2. awaywiffairies

    awaywiffairies Registered Guest

    Thanks Linn, not sure what to say about the fabric on my listing. It is a cotton, but the weave/finish ?? Any suggestions on how to describe the fabric? and re the print is it safe to say both 'screen or handprinted'. I did buy this in the UK, though the fabric doesn't look very British, but may be...

    Difficult one to price especially when I paid quite a bit for it, but it is gorgeous so I hope I'm not wrong in listing it at a decent price. Wonder if Ebay might be better than Etsy, decisions decisions! Just want someone to recognise it for the lovely 1940s print and be willing to pay a decent asking price! :scratchchin:

    Sarah
     
  3. claireshaeffer

    claireshaeffer Trade Member

    I tried unsuccessfully to find a reference to describe how cloque is woven or treated. My best guess is that it's woven with some crepe yarns.

    Plisse' is printed with caustic soda and the puckers flatten out with use. Based on the age and condition of this dress, I don't think it's plisse'. Also, there is frequently a slight difference in the colors where it's printed.

    Seersucker is woven in but the design is usually linear with a distinct pattern.

    I vote for cloque'. Claire
     
  4. awaywiffairies

    awaywiffairies Registered Guest

    :drinkingtoast: Thanks so much Claire for researching the fabric, I'm glad I got everyone stratching their heads! Cloque' then? I have been looking that up since you mentioned it and does sound like it. Since I have the dress, if it helps you to confirm that is definitely cloque', the material does have a give to it, slight stretch and that the bodice part has flattened a bit from I assume being fitted around the bust and thus tension from wear, whereas the skirt is loose and so has had no tension on it. So as part of the material has flattened out a tad, does that still rule plisse' out?

    Oh, I have been truly educated on this thread, I've looked up every single one of the fabrics/finishes that have been mentioned...I didn't know there were so many!

    Sarah
     
  5. awaywiffairies

    awaywiffairies Registered Guest

    And does anyone have a ball park figure at a reasonable asking price? I'm just feeling my feet on the vintage circuit, so help regarding price would be really appreciated!!!!!! I've done ok judging the value of other items I have, but this one I'm a bit stumped... as it's a 40s print on a 50s dress and it's mainly the print that's lovely. I just want the dress to fetch what it deserves and I don't know what that is! :help:
     
  6. claireshaeffer

    claireshaeffer Trade Member

    The bodice is probably flatter because of stress. Plisse' tends to flatten where you sit on it. C
     
  7. awaywiffairies

    awaywiffairies Registered Guest

    That more knowledge, thanks so much Claire, cloque it must be! I guess that makes it less desirable than plisse then :scratchchin:
     
  8. Midge

    Midge Trade Member

    I've not much of an idea about cloqué, but in my understanding, plissé is a wholly different kind of thing than this - but I may be wrong too, just because I associate that word with a German term for a certain kind of fabric treatment, that's derived from the same French word...

    Linn, it's not just the waist, it's also the bust, and this is not the kind of dress I'd want to change. Ah well, only three weeks and I'll be off on holiday, and hope to make many fab vintage finds!

    Karin
     
  9. Linn

    Linn Trade Member

    Hi Karin -

    I think of plissé as very finely pleated fabric but I may be mistaken on this. I know it is not matlaissé, and I'm not familiar with cloqué - but I'm sure Claire, who is an expert is correct.

    The dress would fit me if I had the waist taken in - too bad it's too large for you - you are much closer to it than I am. Hope you find some wonderful vintage pieces on your holiday!

    Linn
     
  10. Midge

    Midge Trade Member

    Linn, that's exactly what I understand as plissé. Very fine regular pleating on the whole fabric, and it's treated in a way that the pleats don't go out.

    Karin
     
  11. Linn

    Linn Trade Member

    Karin-

    I just Googled it and got this - without the accent:

    http://www.magnafabrics.com/category/120.htm

    Looks exactly like the dress.

    I think we are thinking of the French verb plissser and the word plissé which means pleated. I think this word is also used for the type of permanent knive-edge pleating you are describing, too.

    Linn
     
  12. claireshaeffer

    claireshaeffer Trade Member

    NO, no, cloque is more expensive than plisse'. Plisse' is printed with caustic soda so the puckers are not as permanent. The cloques I have are expensive silks. I think you have an expensive cotton. C
     
  13. awaywiffairies

    awaywiffairies Registered Guest

    Thanks Claire, you've been a really great help and I've learnt loads about fabrics. I do now have this dress on Etsy but not sure if I've overpriced or underpriced it. The items I love I do tend to think they're worth more than they actually are, beauty in the eye of the beholder 'n all that! :cats:
     
  14. vertugarde

    vertugarde Alumni

    Late to the party as I've been away on vacation. This is an early to mid-1950's dress and the design is typical of novelty or conversational print designs. During the decade there were some really wonderful British designers producing great textile designs. This may well be one of them. This style of print was very popular and reflected the post-war emergence of travel to Spain, France and Italy. Hence the woman's dress and footwear.

    The fabric looks like a cotton pique and is likely screen printed. The linear drawn 'overlapping' design is deliberate and not a 'miss-register.' You do occasionally see the term 'screen printed' on the selvage and also the manufacturing company name.

    I've owned some 1940's rayon crepe dresses that have that style of drawing albeit in very different colours and mainly floral in theme.
     
  15. awaywiffairies

    awaywiffairies Registered Guest

    :USETHUMBUP: for all the info! I've listed the dress as cloque re prev threads but I better change it to cotton pique then? As the print doesn't sound as unique as I first thought, I think I may now have overpriced the dress :duh2:
     
  16. Midge

    Midge Trade Member

    Bingo, that's it! You found the fabric, and yes, you also got the plissé I meant. The German word for this kind of pleating comes from this word too ("plissiert"), so that's how I came to my conclusion.

    Karin
     
  17. awaywiffairies

    awaywiffairies Registered Guest

    Hi Karin, Aahhhh, I did look that website up when I noticed the link from Linn and I looked at the fabrics all except that light green one which now I have which I agree is very similar if not the same, but shame the fabric isn't too clear cos of the colour. So we have cloque, pique or plisse - is the final verdict plisse or does anyone think otherwise? :clueless:

    Sarah
     
  18. Midge

    Midge Trade Member

  19. awaywiffairies

    awaywiffairies Registered Guest

    Ok Karin, I've changed the listing, thankyou Linn and thanks Karin, we got there in the end!

    Sarah
     
  20. vintagebaubles

    vintagebaubles Administrator Staff Member

    What a fabulous, fabulous dress! Yes, you should be able to get a nice price for this.

    I think I've called this type of fabric a "waffle weave" before.... or honeycomb weave. It's much finer than what I guess is technically a waffle weave, but nonetheless, either of these are pretty descriptive of what it looks like....
     

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