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  1. TreasureSeeker

    TreasureSeeker Registered Guest

    Can anyone one help with the age of this coat, please?
    3 Labels attached
    "Cotsmoor of London" "Marshall & Snelgrove" "Pure New Wool"

    IMG_4829.JPG
     

    Attached Files:

  2. tickeryboo

    tickeryboo Alumni

    that coat is such a gorgeous colour. also an interesting collection of labels each telling their own story. i would date the coat at mid 60s, use of the woolmark was about that time too.

    the tweed was woven by Bernat Klein, a Serbian textile designer and painter from Scotland who supplied fabrics to designers in the 1960s and 1970s, before starting to sell his own clothing collections . gorgeous glorious colour is the key to his creations, and the museum of scotland will eventually be putting on an exhibition of his work, once its all catalogued.

    the coat would have been designed and manufactured by Cotsmoor of London and Marshall and Snelgrove would have bought some of their seasonal stock from Cotsmoor, added their own label to the coat and then sold it in their stores.

    lorraine
     
    Retro Ruth and Pinkcoke like this.
  3. Retro Ruth

    Retro Ruth Administrator Staff Member

    great info lorraine.

    I notice that the Woolmark label says 'Certification Trademark Applied For', which I've never seen before. Presumably therefore that label (though not necessarily the coat) was created before the Woolmark trademark was granted. The Woolmark was created and launched in 1964, but according to the UK Intellectual Property Office, the trademark wasn't granted in the UK until October 1965. Therefore this Woolmark label must have been made after the launch of the Woolmark in '64, and before October '65.

    Your coat can't be earlier than 1964, and although stocks of labels sometimes get used up for years after they were made, I think it's safe to say couldn't be many years later than 1965 either.

    It's probably one of the earliest woolmark labels, and I'm sure we'd love a copy for our label resource if you'd like to submit it.
     
  4. peaceful vintage

    peaceful vintage Administrator Staff Member

    Great information shared by all. I had too looked up the history of both Bernat Klein and Marshall & Snelgrove on the internet coming up with much of the same information. I also checked our label resource section. Bernat Klein was doing ready to wear labels in the 70s and 80s and Marshall & Snelgrove stores became Debenhams in 1973 so based on that information along with the other information provided I believe this would be an late 60s to early 70s coat.

    Here are both labels in our label resource section;

    Marshall & Snelgrove
    http://vintagefashionguild.org/label-resource/marshall-snelgrove/

    Bernat Klein
    http://vintagefashionguild.org/label-resource/klein-bernat/
     
  5. Retro Ruth

    Retro Ruth Administrator Staff Member

    Surely this coat precedes Bernat's Ready to Wear lines? The labels show he made the fabric, but not the coat.
     
  6. peaceful vintage

    peaceful vintage Administrator Staff Member

    I think it has to be somewhere post 65 and pre 73 based on the information provided. Like you said Ruth, the Woolmark label could have been in stock and used a few years after.
    Bernat was creating fine wools for Coco Chanel in 1962 and other couture designers until 1966. Then he set up business on his own again. Sometime shortly after I think he provided the wool to Marshall & Snelgrove who made the coat and being the Marshall & Snelgrove label is in there who changed to Debenhams in 73 I think it would have to be pre 73.
     
  7. Retro Ruth

    Retro Ruth Administrator Staff Member

    Makes sense.
     
  8. tickeryboo

    tickeryboo Alumni

    not forgetting though that Marshall and Snelgrove didn't make the coat, they just sold it. Cotsmoor were making coats expressly for other companies, so it would have been them that negotiated the design and purchase of the wool from Klein, and then Marshall and Snelgrove stocked the coats.

    i'm not sure i can see anything 70s about this coat, its still got that 50s look about it and its style would have still have been made in the 60s , but it doesn't say 70s to me.

    lorraine
     
  9. peaceful vintage

    peaceful vintage Administrator Staff Member

    Yep Lorraine, I was so busy gathering information about the history of the other two labels that I forgot about the Cotsmoor label who would have been as you said the designer of the coat with the wool being made by Bernat and the coat being sold by Marshall & Snelgrove.
     
  10. Retro Ruth

    Retro Ruth Administrator Staff Member

    I agree I don't see 70s, and it could be as early as 64 based on the Woolmark label. However if Bernat wasn't producing the wool fabric under his own name until 66 then it must be a little later. I think the OP can safely say mid to late 60s.
     
  11. peaceful vintage

    peaceful vintage Administrator Staff Member

    I don't see 70s at all either, not early 70s anyway. I am just saying based on the information if it is all correct technically it would have to be post 65 and pre 73.
     
  12. tickeryboo

    tickeryboo Alumni

    tee hee Caryn, thats exactly what i do! !:) this just makes you realise what a journey these clothes go on, i mean the whole process before they even got on the shop floor! and how interesting that they were all so proud of their work that each one had their own beautifully crafted labels! we don't get that now, no pride and no workmanship!

    my grandmother used to send gorgeous christmas presents in their boxes to us from Marshall & Snelgrove, she didn't have much money and mum used to moan that she was spending too much on us as it was quite an expensive shop in its day. unfortunate that Debenhams took over, or bought them out whatever, as there was no style and quality left after that, just wiping out the competition.

    i'd love to see the exhibition of Bernat Klein's work, although rather a long way to go!

    lorraine
     
    peaceful vintage likes this.
  13. Retro Ruth

    Retro Ruth Administrator Staff Member

    It could still be 64 - the woolmark started in 64, but was trademarked in 65.
     
  14. peaceful vintage

    peaceful vintage Administrator Staff Member

    Bernat Klein obviously was very skilled with looming fine wool. It's very interesting to know that earlier in 1952 he was weaving rugs as well as this other information which may help regarding this coat;

    Screen Shot 2013-12-13 at 2.24.02 PM.png
     
  15. Jonathan

    Jonathan VFG Member

    That's a VERY long coat for anything after 1964, I think it has to be fall 64, between the label and that length. It's the sort of coat I remember New Wavers wearing in 80-83, but the look then was granny chic and almost everything New Wavers wore was vintage.
     
  16. Retro Ruth

    Retro Ruth Administrator Staff Member

    That makes sense with the woolmark label.
     
  17. peaceful vintage

    peaceful vintage Administrator Staff Member

    It is a very long coat for that time and the body for the late 60s/early 70s looks looser than I would expect. I am perplexed by that Bernat Klein label because Bernat Klein was not established until 1966. I wonder what the Bernat Klein Limited label looked like if there was one.
     
  18. Retro Ruth

    Retro Ruth Administrator Staff Member

    If the company was called Bernat Klein Limited from 1962, there no reason this label can't be from 1964 - they wouldn't necessarily put the Limited part on the label.
     
  19. peaceful vintage

    peaceful vintage Administrator Staff Member

    That might be possible but Bernat Klein Limited was not soley Bernat Klein's company. Bernat resigned from that company in 1966 to create his own company Bernat Klein and I cannot see the same label being used for his new company that was used for the company he resigned from, unless he took the label with him. Perhaps that's a possibility.
     
  20. Retro Ruth

    Retro Ruth Administrator Staff Member

    They wouldn't have known in 1964 that he would resign in 1966, and the company was named after him at that point, so why wouldn't his name be on the label in 1964?
     

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