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Anyone recognize this Lion and Towers (?) emblem Coat of Arms on little brooch?

Discussion in 'PUBLIC Vintage Fashion - Ask Questions Get Answers' started by laurenm, Mar 5, 2015.

  1. laurenm

    laurenm Registered Guest

    Okay, I'm sure I'm just ignorant, but I've done an image search (first in my brain, then on Google)....wondering if anyone has any thoughts on what this thing is and when it might be from?
    Thanks alot,
    Lauren
     

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    laurenm, Mar 5, 2015
    #1
  2. Catbooks1940s

    Catbooks1940s VFG Member

    with the crown and the lion, i'd say it's british. that's all i've got, sorry.
     
    Catbooks1940s, Mar 5, 2015
    #2
  3. Pinkcoke

    Pinkcoke Alumni

    It's definetly British, that tiny flower beneath the lion is the English Rose. These things are full of individual symbolism, often with more included that you can originally see. Motifs I can see:
    A crown.
    The 'towers' are actually curtains or perhaps ribbons.
    Two tridents? or swords? either side.
    The lion is rampant (standing on hind legs) apparantly on a cobbled road (unsually, I have never seen a surface under a rampant lion before)
    Beneath the red ribbon are studs? like metalwork - maybe meant to be a horseshoe including the rest of that shape.
    Mounted on a 8 pointed star.

    Somehow I don't think it was a brooch originally, the placement of the pin is odd and doesn't make sense if that was the original intention. The hollow back shape and definition make me think it was a badge from some kind of uniform.
     
    Pinkcoke, Mar 5, 2015
    #3
  4. laurenm

    laurenm Registered Guest

    Wow, Melanie, Thanks for you very thorough analysis...I don't have a good enough magnifier at the moment....do you think it's possible the Rampant Lion is on water? Those things could be tridents, they are sort of curved so could also be a plant or flower? The 4 circular blobs (one just outlined) on top of each could be a flower?

    The pin part is ever so slightly askew but almost looks like it was roughly soldered in place. The pin is almost exactly the same colour as the badge.
     
    laurenm, Mar 5, 2015
    #4
  5. Retro Ruth

    Retro Ruth VFG Member Staff Member

    The curtian thing coming down from a crown or helmet, is called a 'Pavilion' in heraldry. This actually makes it less likely to be British, where it's not often used, and more likely to be from somewhere else in Europe, such as Germany or Holland. Although the rose is particularly common in English heraldry, it is used elsewhere too. The crown implies a royal connection. I think those red things either side are just ribbons or ropes, tying the curtains, not swords or tridents.

    There are so many coats of arms, even royal ones, it can be very difficult to identify them.

    Here's the Netherlands Coat of Arms, which has a pavilion, and a crown, but it's not the same as yours. See it has ties, on the curtain swags.

    [​IMG]
     
    Retro Ruth, Mar 5, 2015
    #5
  6. Retro Ruth

    Retro Ruth VFG Member Staff Member

    The big red ribbon at the bottom would usually contain the words of a motto, but I expect it was too small to be depicted on this badge. Shame, as that would make identifying it much easier!
     
    Retro Ruth, Mar 5, 2015
    #6
  7. Catbooks1940s

    Catbooks1940s VFG Member

    i think it is british. the cross-like symbols on the crown (royal crest) look like this one:

    [​IMG]
     
    Catbooks1940s, Mar 5, 2015
    #7
  8. Retro Ruth

    Retro Ruth VFG Member Staff Member

    Your illustration shows the St Edwards Crown. It's true, it does look like either the Tudor or St Edwards Crown, which are both from British royal family. It could come from a Commonwealth country though. I researched these crowns recently because they appear on RAF uniform buttons - the St Edwards Crown (known as the Queen's Crown), only being used after her coronation in 1953. I can't see the crown well enough on the badge to see which one it is
     
    Retro Ruth, Mar 5, 2015
    #8
  9. laurenm

    laurenm Registered Guest

    heres a little bit better of a photo
     

    Attached Files:

    laurenm, Mar 5, 2015
    #9
  10. laurenm

    laurenm Registered Guest

    actually it's not really much better at all!
     
    laurenm, Mar 5, 2015
    #10
  11. Retro Ruth

    Retro Ruth VFG Member Staff Member

    That is a better photo, but because the crown is angled away it's still not that easy to see. However it could be a simplified version of the Queens' Crown. It's just strange because you don't generally see that 'Pavilion' curtaining in British coats of arms. It's a mystery.
     
    Retro Ruth, Mar 5, 2015
    #11
  12. Pinkcoke

    Pinkcoke Alumni

    I'm really thinking this is a cap badge now, it would explain why the pin is not central (so it faces upwards when worn), and the lack of finesse when you never see the reverse.

    I don't think you said, how big is it?
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2015
    Pinkcoke, Mar 5, 2015
    #12
  13. Midge

    Midge Super Moderator Staff Member

    Agree, the placement of the pin looks strange. It might just be a fantasy motif though - just decorative, not meaning anything... My grandma had an elegant suit that I remember had all these fancy looking heraldic appliqués on it, and they were all just fantasy designs - but looked great. I can't think of anything right now this could represent.
     
    Midge, Mar 7, 2015
    #13
    Retro Ruth likes this.
  14. catwalkcreative

    catwalkcreative Alumni

    Your badge has certainly created lots of interesting viewpoints Lauren. I agree the pin could have been added later - it looks awkward doesn't it? Perhaps it would have been worn on a hat or beret. What is the size?
     
    catwalkcreative, Mar 8, 2015
    #14
  15. Retro Ruth

    Retro Ruth VFG Member Staff Member

    I was thinking along those lines too, that it might not be a 'real' coat of arms. I used to have heraldic print silk pyjamas.
     
    Retro Ruth, Mar 8, 2015
    #15
  16. laurenm

    laurenm Registered Guest

    I'm not at home at the moment to measure but it's approximately 2.5 inches diameter. To me the pin looks soldered as there's a tad bit of whitish residue on it, but that could be glue....not that that really determines anything I guess.
     
    laurenm, Mar 8, 2015
    #16

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