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Burberry Coat Authentication and Dat

Discussion in 'PUBLIC Vintage Fashion - Ask Questions Get Answers' started by Rosebea, Sep 8, 2012.

  1. Rosebea

    Rosebea Registered Guest

    Hello! I just received a, hopefully, Burberry coat for my birthday. I've been trying to determine whether or not it's authentic and also what the "expressly for Dager + Koch" means on the label. I was hoping someone on here could help. I know that before a certain date the label said "Burberry's" instead of "BURBERRY," but I don't know much else.

    http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh570/rosebea1/217fe527.jpg
    http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh570/rosebea1/c49a987c.jpg
    http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh570/rosebea1/8e2524b1.jpg (Sorry about the lighting on this one!)
    http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh570/rosebea1/1be0db0b.jpg
     
  2. Linn

    Linn Super Moderator Staff Member

    Hi,

    The VFG can't authenticate items without having them in hand. You would have to take your new coat to Burberry for that.

    If you have not checked our Label Resource, here is a link to some information about Burberrys:

    http://vintagefashionguild.org/label-resource/burberrys/

    I can't see the small label, but my guess is that Dager + Koch is the name of the store where the coat was sold, and your coat may be a special purchase or design, exclusive to that shop. Judging by the style and the fiber content, I think the coat is probably C. 1990's but it's a very classic design and could be a tad earlier. I can't tell how long it is, which may help to pin it down.

    Nice birthday gift - happy birthday!

    Linn
     
  3. Rosebea

    Rosebea Registered Guest

    Thank you so much for your help! It's more information than I've been able to find elsewhere. :)
     
  4. vintagebaubles

    vintagebaubles Administrator Staff Member

    Assuming your coat is authentic (as Linn says, nobody can do that without having coat in hand, but let's assume for the moment it is), as I understand it, the apostrophe after the "s" was dropped along the way, then eventually the s itself. I don't know when that all happened, but in looking at the label resource, it appears that the apostrophe was dropped sometime in the 80s. (I don't know that for sure, though.) I've had 2 Burberrys' with the Nova Check lining--and one was 80s (I'm pretty sure) and it had the apostrophe. The other was from the 60s and had it as well. I don't know if this helps you at all, but it might....
     
  5. Linn

    Linn Super Moderator Staff Member

    I am fairly sure that the company (and the label) became Burberry in 1998, and lost the apostrophe some time in the late 1980's. I have a skirt that we all thought was '80's and the label is Burberrys' with the apostrophe and the "s."

    Linn
     
  6. Retro Ruth

    Retro Ruth Administrator Staff Member

    Thanks for that Linn - I've been wanting to know when Burberry dropped the S, as I have a Burberrys brooch.

    As I'm a grammar pedant, and I know I'm not the only one here, can I point out that the Burberry label never had an apostrophe. What it had was a pair of single quotation marks, ie not just after the S, but also before the B. Grammatically a pair of quote marks has a very different meaning, than an apostrophe after the S (which would be a possessive apostrophe). Quote marks indicate some kind of emphasis, and always come in pairs, opening and closing quotation marks, bracketing a piece of text.

    This page explains for anyone who cares about such things!
     
  7. Circa Vintage

    Circa Vintage Alumni +

    Good point Ruth, about the perceived apostrophe. As an aside, it's curious that the logo contained quotation marks. I wonder why they did so? Perhaps they asked themselves that one day and hence, dropped them!
     
  8. Pinkcoke

    Pinkcoke Alumni

    Burberry have registered trademarks with images going back to 1909 with the quotation marks (The B Burberrys Prorsum logo) - that is the only trademark that specifically included the quotation marks in their registration.

    The first registration for 'Thomas Burberry' was 05 October 1990 for clothing.
    The first registration for 'Burberry' plain was 29 November 1991 for several classes.

    (A note that the filing dates appear earlier than these but as they were not given permission to use them before being granted the above dates are the first that they could be used)

    All info from the Intellectual Property Office's list of Burberry trademarks.
     
  9. vintagebaubles

    vintagebaubles Administrator Staff Member

    So bizarre--until Ruth pointed it out, I never saw the opening single quotation mark! Duh. Even though I've had two Burberry coats, so the opportunity to see the labels up close, I had always heard the reference to "apostrophe," so I always saw that, but never, ever noticed the first quotation mark! Even when looking at the label resource last night! Obviously assuming that "Burberrys'" was possessive--as in, for example, the company founder's name being Burberrys (not Burberry, otherwise the apostrophe would be after y and not s), thus the company name being Burberrys' [firm].

    Still.... I can't imagine why they used the single quotes for their name. Without context, it doesn't make much sense to me.

    In any event, this shows how easy it is for people to see what it is they expect to see, rather than what's really there! (Which is why I hate to proofread my own copy--since I "know" what's "supposed" to be there, it is--whether it is or not!)
     
  10. Retro Ruth

    Retro Ruth Administrator Staff Member

    That's why I noticed it. Knowing, as you clearly also do, the difference between an apostrophe before the s or after the s, it didn't make sense, because no-one could be called Mr Burberrys.

    I've done a little professional proof-reading (can you tell? :)), and it's well known that you shouldn't try and proof your own copy.
     
  11. vintagebaubles

    vintagebaubles Administrator Staff Member

    Yes, it would be very odd to have a surname of "Burberrys," but I couldn't figure it out any other way--with my preconceived notion of the ending single quote being an apostrophe! Now, the puzzle is solved.

    Mostly I don't have anyone else to proof my copy when I'm doing a job for a client, so I generally will "put it away" for a day, then proof it, which brings fresh eyes and a fresh brain to it. I can't trust my clients to proofread my copy--because they're always in too much of a hurry and half the time can't pick up a mistake when they see it. (Many of them, for example, don't know the difference between "its" and "it's" and will tell me I have it wrong when it's right! LOL....)
     
  12. Retro Ruth

    Retro Ruth Administrator Staff Member

    Yes I do the same thing with proofing if I have to - put it away come back later. Or you might as well not bother!
     
  13. vintagebaubles

    vintagebaubles Administrator Staff Member

    You said it! For sure....
     

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