CASHMERE - firms & dating discussion thread...

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Noir*Boudoir

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Just sold for over $70, and apart from its really wonderful Intarsia design, I'm beginning to wonder why.

<img src="http://users.ox.ac.uk/~wolf1360/auction/clothes/cashmere/altmannaustria.jpg" alt="altmann intarsia sweater">

I'm always confused by this short-sleeved, wide-ribbed waist style, as it doesn't seem to change much until the late 50s.
This one has a 'Bernard Altmann made in Austria' label. Format not too dissimilar from the later 50s 'signature' style, but still different:

<img src="http://users.ox.ac.uk/~wolf1360/auction/clothes/cashmere/altmannaustrialabel.jpg" alt="altmannlabel">

If this is 50s, as advertised, it means that B.Altmann regained control over his Vienna factory that he had had to abandon c.1939. Or could this possibly be pre-war??

Here's why I'm always confused - here's my Pringle sweater, with the very early looking label. Slightly puffy sleeves but no decoration or shoulderpads. No shoulder seams either (all of a piece).
<img src="http://users.ox.ac.uk/~wolf1360/auction/clothes/cashmere/cashmere%20005.jpg" alt="earlyish Pringle">

So what's pre-war and what's post? I need all the help I can get here...

L
 
That B. Altman one is FANTASTIC!

$70 is a bargain for a 100% vintage cashmere top like that. It's such a great piece. The colors and design are so classic. Great for work with black slacks or a black skirt, yet hip enough to wear with jeans. That is one of the best I've seen. Absolutely awesome!
 
Yes, it was bid up from the starting block, so I left it for other bidders to fight over and just watched.
Kind of wishing I'd attempted a snipe now... (as always!)
L
 
I am sure it is 50s. One of my favorite cashmeres is a 50s intarsia Altmann which has the same label as this one. So he was definitely producing cashmere in Austria in the 50s.

I LOVE the one you posted.

I'm going now to look through my 50s Vogues to see if there are any B. Altmann ads. And I'll put my label with your for the resource.

Lizzie
 
I'd be interested to see what the Bernhard Altmann material shows, since it's clear one can get post war garments with both 'Bernhard Altmann Made in Austria' and 'Bernhard Altmann, Wien' on their labels. Possibly just a market difference in Europe.

In the meantime, I'm going off on a little Lyle and Scott tangent. Poor old Lyle & Scott have lost the the North American profile they had at one time, although I don't think they ever really challenged Pringle and Ballantyne.

However, the fact that *their* vintage revival concentrated quite heavily on the chic-nerd factor of their 60s-70s men's golf sweaters has made *certain* Lyle and Scott v-necks with an argyle pattern in a pink, red or bright green colourway go for a great deal on Ebay (nearly $100 for a recent 70s pink/red argyle example.

*Anyway*, I'm working on their write up and I wanted to post various label formats, in case anyone has any additions. I also wanted to air a couple of the nuggets about their immediately post-war business which I find interesting.

The labels:
<img src="http://users.ox.ac.uk/~wolf1360/auction/clothes/cashmere/Lyle%20&%20Scott%2040s%20label.jpg" alt="early label">
(1940s?)
This tag design was introduced to the US market in 1949. If anyone has an suggestions as to how long it was in use, please offer them.

<p align="center">
<img src="http://users.ox.ac.uk/~wolf1360/auction/clothes/cashmere/lyle&scott1949trademark.jpg" alt="trademark"><p>


<img src="http://users.ox.ac.uk/~wolf1360/auction/clothes/cashmere/Lyle%20&%20Scott%2040s%20sequin%20sweater%20label.jpg" alt="label c.1949">
(mid-40s or possibly later 50s label? - for revision when closer comparison is poss)

<img src="http://users.ox.ac.uk/~wolf1360/auction/clothes/cashmere/lyleandscottlabel.jpg" alt="60s-70s">
(60s-70s label, possibly dating from when L & S were taken over by Courtaulds)

-------------
Some exerpts & pics from 'Craftsmanship' the in-house cheerleading mag for Lyle & Scott employees:

British mag ad. 1949:
<img src="http://users.ox.ac.uk/~wolf1360/auction/clothes/cashmere/Lyle&Scott40sad.jpg" alt="1st 40s ad">

A usual perk of working for this firm would be access to their own cashmere sweaters... but... so desperate were they to bump up exports in 1949 that hardly any were even made available in the UK:
<p align="center">
<i>Many of you will be wondering why we cannot supply you with a twin set whenever you ask for one for your personal use...

As you know, we have to give our Cashmeres and Golden Fleece priority for Export. This means that our home customers get delivery only after we have satisfied our Export markets...

Then we must try to satisfy the personal wants of all of us who work at Lyle & Scott. It takes 35 dozen sets – 70 dozen garments – for each of us to have a twin set.
So it’s the old, old story. The more we produce, the more we get. And if each of us produced a dozen per week more than at present – then we’ll all get our twin sets for the July holidays.</i> <p>

No wonder everyone was desperate to leave the country...

<img src="http://users.ox.ac.uk/~wolf1360/auction/clothes/cashmere/lyle&scott1949ad.jpg" alt="1949 ad">


And some ads from Lyle & Scott's US export partners in 1949:

<img src="http://users.ox.ac.uk/~wolf1360/auction/clothes/cashmere/lyle&scott1949ads.jpg">
<i>'You have already read in an earlier issue of 'Craftsmanship' of the wonderful advertising and display that American stores have given us in the past year. This success is determined by one thing, and that is 'customer acceptance' achieved by the maintenance and even improvement of the fine standard of craftsmanship which you are putting into the finished product.'</i>

<p>
Lin
 
Lin -

I had the gray Altman on my watch list - I <i>love</i> it! As others have said, Bernhard Altmann is a major vintage cashmere label - almost as sought after - if not equally - as Dalton? Someone correct me if I'm wrong about that. Anyway, I didn't know about this maker myself until I found one a year or so ago, posted questions about it & Lizzie edggi-cated me about the esteemed Herr Altmann :)

If I can seriously organize my time over the next few days - <i>which is the plan</i> - I should be able to go through my photo archives - I'm sure I have at least a few labels that might be of interest. I'm leaving town on Feb. 1 for a month so no more scrambling to get things listed for awhile.

Carolyn
 
That's great, Carolyn - I'll be really interested in anything you come across.

I think over here Pringle and Ballantyne occupy that Dalton/Altmann position (I'm not sure Dalton ever sold here, although I'm sure Altmann did at some point - maybe *before* the war, rather than later).

And that's been helped by the fact that both have been promoting themselves for a renaissance in the last two years.
From what I've seen though, Dalton & Altmann both do really interesting decorative styles. Looking to learn more...

Lin
 
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