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Costume Honors Announced for Oscars

Discussion in 'PUBLIC Vintage Chatter - Anything and everything' started by Patentleathershoes, Jan 25, 2005.

  1. I think fear of public speaking actually ranks higher than fear of death. Give me public speaking any day!
     
  2. Noir*Boudoir

    Noir*Boudoir Guest

    <i>but it is usually due to problems regarding budget. Costumers need money in order to be authentic!</i>>

    Back on the ancient costume thang - I find the design as a whole for ancient epic is a bizarre combination of wildly off the wall and the anally specific.

    I've experienced this at first hand, and it's the result of a total lack of context-awareness (archaeological/cultural) at the production/script development stage, combined with a frenzied late surge on the part of the set-dressing/accessories people to be 'historically accurate'. Usually <i>after</i> they've done those artistic 'concept sketches' for the main characters' costumes.

    There's something about people's ideas about the ancient world, which means that costume and settings are no longer 'everyday' - nobody would think of doing an Ancient Roman murder mystery, for example (although they <I>should</i>) - but everyone must look 19th--C-history-painting fantastical.

    There is in fact a whole bunch of evidence for Classical and Archaic Greek costume, <i>some</i> for Bronze Age Mycenaean and Not A Lot for Bronze Age Anatolian (which is what Troy should be if they're going the whole legendary hog).

    There's also a pile, a <i>PILE</i> of evidence, a lot surviving in colour (some surviving in actual fabric) for ancient Persian costume and jewellery, but very little of it made a strong impression on the look of 'Alexander', for example, because of time pressures.

    Basically, what I'm ranting on about here is that ancient costume, beyond what already exists in people's consciousness from Alma Tadema/Last Days of Pompeii silent movie, is barely researched.

    And I think Jonathan's right. Films like Troy and Alexander are really in the Lord of the Rings costuming category, rather than the Aviator. They're researched in a totally different way, 'cos the literature's a different style, the sources *look* different and the expectations are different. And thus, 'accuracy' isn't really there in the same way.

    OK rant over. Something that gets on my nerves....perfectly servicable source material...mumble mumble....

    ps. Did anyone see King Arthur? Kiera's costume aside, I believe they *did* stick everyone, plausibly enough, in late Roman armour - but ironically one person I saw the trailer with hooted in disbelief at seeing the 'plausible' costume:
    'Ha ha! why on earth are they dressed as Romans???'

    'Er... 'cos...'
     
  3. Noir*Boudoir

    Noir*Boudoir Guest

    Oh yes! *And*

    <i>I noticed that Helen of Troy's jewellery was a quite faithful reproduction of the jewellery found on the site in the 19th century which was nice to see</i>

    Which is the kind of thing I love! It's great when they copy famous objects, so cool! But on the other hand, isn't most of that hoard of jewellery dated to the 2nd millennium BC (ie. another 1000 years out, in the other direction)?

    And *that's* the perfect illustration of the conceptual processes in the creation of the look of ancient epics.

    When that jewellery was first dug up, Schliemann called it 'Priam's treasure' or some such, didn't he? Being unaware of the date, and dressing his wife up in it...

    So, they're using objects which are kind of associated with Troy through the mythology of its discovery, rather than archaeological date accuracy (and I believe the same thing happened with the armour - they modelled it on the Greek vase paintings that used the Troy story as an ancient legend dressed up in their *own* contemporary clothing...).**

    Which, when you think about the haziness of the subject itself, is pretty representative of the whole story, really. Layers of legend - narrative <i>and</i> image.

    But Persia on the other hand..... >:(

    **nb. I could be talking totally out my a*s here (happens a lot) as I only saw clips of Troy, couldn't stand to go see the whole thing...
     
  4. Jonathan

    Jonathan VFG Member

    I am so embarrassed! 1,000 years later than the sacking of Troy! Well, you learn something new everyday.
     
  5. Patentleathershoes

    Patentleathershoes VFG Veteran VFG Past President

    People forget that when you take the legend of arthur back to when originally the stories set them at (time frame) and strip away your notions of Tennyson, etc, Romans and the historical or mythical King Arthur definitely had overlap or concurrence. There are many many texts about it. I have the Mabinogian which was taken from the ancient welsh texts and is supposedly the very first account of king arthur in any literature, and it was definitely oral tradition or in the cultural fiber I am most positive before then.
     
  6. Patentleathershoes

    Patentleathershoes VFG Veteran VFG Past President

    FYI--- there WILL be an oscar watching /red carpet dishing party here on Oscar night and for the morning after reaction :)
     
  7. Noir*Boudoir

    Noir*Boudoir Guest

    My favourite combination fashion <i>and</i> film gossip!

    Jonathan, pah! what's 1000 years to a fearless film maker!! (nb. y'know, some of it could have been a few hundred years' nearer, it's been a while since I thought about this stuff... ;) )
     
  8. Patentleathershoes

    Patentleathershoes VFG Veteran VFG Past President

    nobody would think of doing an Ancient Roman murder mystery, for example (although they should) - but everyone must look 19th--C-history-painting fantastical.

    Lin, I just re-read this. And there WAS a book )novel) in the early 90s i believe that was a roman murder mystery or about a crime solving individual in imperial or republic rome but i forgot the name of the book now. This is horrible- i didn't read it, wanted to, but didn't.... i bet in the middle of the night it will pop into my head. BUt, no, it was not made into a movie so it is a moot point.
     
  9. I saw Aviator yesterday...yawn. The film was way too long and over-produced IMO, but Sandy Powell did a fantastic job with the costumes. I covet the deep peach hammered satin 30's gown and jacket that Cate Blanchett wore. And those 40's platform shoes that Kelli Garner wore...OMG!!

    Jody
     
  10. Patentleathershoes

    Patentleathershoes VFG Veteran VFG Past President

    Cate Blanchett always looks good.

    Hollywood does love those glossy sweeping historical epics though. Well, I woudn't say it is a "sweeping historical epic" in the classic sense, but i would consider the idea more that than an intimate character driven and talky film.

    And what is the deal with Leonardo diCaprio getting a lifetime acheivement award of some sort? He had a few decent acting turns, a lot of popularity and a few lucky breaks, but being a "movie star" doesn't yet put you up there with being legendary. I am not calling that longevity. Cripes, I think he's about my age.
     
  11. Noir*Boudoir

    Noir*Boudoir Guest

    Chris,

    The roman murder mystery books are the Falco ones by Lindsay Davis. They've been serialised on the radio here, but not done for TV or anything. Basically it would entail recreating ancient Trastevere as a kind of downtown, down-at-heel world capital's suburb, plus some of the mysteries are set in places like Petra which would take *some* CGI-ing... You could do it in Pinewood if someone stumped up the cash.

    But film companies only like spending that much on effects for the 'epic' stories with explosions and battles. Not some ironically-toned, Chandler-influenced ancient private detective flick.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again - I think the Chinese genre take on 'ancient epic', and their use of historical settings, are far more advanced than Hollywood's. Gladiator seems to have been a faintly innovative blip, and none of the other ancient epic makers seem to have twigged that you need to make a different film from the one that was made in 1954 (or at least, not the 1954 film with added alt-Freudian angst, Mr. Stone, thank you).
    //rant

    Can't wait to see the costumes in the Aviator! I'm so behind on my film-watching!!

    L
     
  12. Patentleathershoes

    Patentleathershoes VFG Veteran VFG Past President

    Why was i thinking it was Colleen McCollough and it was set in Rome as well as Gaul, but then i didn't read it but you could be absolutely right. I just remember some thread of the story being about some lost/stolen coins and they were hidden in a not so tidy way,

    ANyway, I LOOOOVED Gladiator. I did feel it was a mix of history, a heavy dose of Ben Hur (which maybe not the whole audience would have seen - the motif of the noble person, wrongly enslaved, coming back to get his due...but this time gladiators instead of charioteers) and a few other ideas, but I really like the film. I didn't feel the movie was properly marketed at least initially. When you saw the original commercials, you thought it was all about the fighting and didn't know about the whole story or tone of the movie you were in for. Like they tried to market it to the wrong crowd at first.
     
  13. pastperfect2

    pastperfect2 Alumni +

    Given that costume designers have to please :

    the producers
    the director
    the star ( and their spouse, agent and anyone else they give a say to)
    ( none of the above are known for giving a hoot about accuracy)

    And do it on usually tight budgets and time frames, it's a wonder half of what gets done looks as good as it does.

    I have done mostly stage and opera deisgn, not much film at all, but I promise you if the director doesn't like it, it isn't on film. Or if the star won't wear it, ditto.

    And hair and makeup are often a separate design team altogther. In theatre, I get to design the hair and makeup - in opera, there is a separate designer.

    So when you see clothing that looks good, but the hair or makeup look wrong, remember , it may well have been somone else's choice, not the costume designer's.

    Hollis
     
  14. Patentleathershoes

    Patentleathershoes VFG Veteran VFG Past President

    So true Hollis!

    And then there is the "can the person change out of it, put on something else and get back out on stage hit their mark all in less than 3 minutes" factor to modify around.
    Yikes.
     
  15. Patentleathershoes

    Patentleathershoes VFG Veteran VFG Past President

    :love008:
    (Smiley is close enough to wearing heart shaped sunglasses)

    I wonder who it will be....and will we agree? :P
     
  16. The Aviator takes it!!!!!!!!
     

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